How fitting

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

That's pretty dull then, no? Especially if compared against the likes of 4.1 Inner Release burst window or even 4.3 DRK's Delirium interactions? Theirs degraded since, but that hardly means PLD couldn't benefit from something less spammy.

Could but how much of a difference would it really make in the long run, as soon as you get used to it, it's gonna be people back here again complaining it just as dull and boring, as if you spammed 3-5 buttons over again. That's the nature of this game, you can come up with some galaxy brain levelled ideas, but if most people can't grasp it, then it's bad by default. Make some big overhaul, then give it time, the same people come back time and time again complaining it's boring, and the majority of those people probably haven't got the fundamentals down for the specific jobs they're complaining about.

Also nice that you ignored the part where I noted with Requiescat, that you have more freedoms with Requiescat, that separates it from Delirium or IR.

And 4.1 WAR was still spamming the one button 6 times in your big window, took work to line it up, but fundamentally it's the same thing, spamming the same GCD.

[Shurrikhan]

Could but how much of a difference would it really make in the long run, as soon as you get used to it, it's gonna be people back here again complaining it just as dull and boring

So... what? All improvement, polish, creativity, etc., in regard to building a skill, kit, or playflow is pointless?

And how would we even know, when not a single job has been changed for the more nuanced/involved/creative, only the opposite?

Also nice that you ignored the part where I noted with Requiescat, that you have more freedoms with Requiescat, that separates it from Delirium or IR.

Ignored? Not really. It was you who drew those similarities to unify the three, after all. If you want to reverse or disclaim your statement immediately after, that's up to you. My point was separate: that two other jobs being similarly dull in their nearest area doesn't suddenly make that area impossible to improve upon. We'd already seen better versions, after all.

but fundamentally it's the same thing

X (4.1 vs. post-4.1 IR) is unchanged, except in regard to A, B, C, and D (duration, effort and time required for setup, margin management, and intervening actions), but A, B, C, and D don't count, so they're the same. ???

No. They were different. Not hugely so, but different nonetheless -- hence the complaints about losing some of those above elements. Spare me the "fundamental" goalpost-tossing.

Some changes towards simplification have been net positives (even if that may seem the case less often of late), but they are nonetheless changes.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

So... what? All improvement, polish, creativity, etc., in regard to building a skill, kit, or playflow is pointless?

And how would we even know, when not a single job has been changed for the more nuanced/involved/creative, only the opposite?


Ignored? Not really. It was you who drew those similarities to unify the three, after all. If you want to reverse or disclaim your statement immediately after, that's up to you. My point was separate: that two other jobs being similarly dull in their nearest area doesn't suddenly make that area impossible to improve upon. We'd already seen better versions, after all.


X (4.1 vs. post-4.1 IR) is unchanged, except in regard to A, B, C, and D (duration, effort and time required for setup, margin management, and intervening actions), but A, B, C, and D don't count, so they're the same. ???

No. They were different. Not hugely so, but different nonetheless -- hence the complaints about losing some of those above elements. Spare me the "fundamental" goalpost-tossing.

Some changes towards simplification have been net positives (even if that may seem the case less often of late), but they are nonetheless changes.

I never said anything was pointless, that's just your assumption. I just pointed out you're gonna have the same people come in here and complain that it's boring and same-y all over again. Rinse and repeat, give something new, someone always comes complaining, changes are never good enough for people.

Paladin serves to refute your claim of "And how would we even know, when not a single job has been changed for the more nuanced/involved/creative, only the opposite?" when PLD was a strict rotation, yet while strict in some respects, now has the most complex rotation out of all of the tanks in optimisation, refer to the rotation guide for specific fights on Balance Discord for evidence of this, it's rotation becomes very nuanced depending on fights. But guess that still won't be good enough for you, huh?

I mean of course I unified the similarities of Requiescat, Inner Release and Delirium, they're a buff window where you spam the same skill in a normal flow of the rotation. And I never disclaimed or reversed my statement, but you're asking for nuance but overlooking nuance slapping you in the face.

And no because when the buff window is open you spam fell cleave 6 times over, the point people complain about said skills was always that is was spammy sure it took a bit of effort to set up, Paladin need to recoup it's mana otherwise failing to do so may result in failing to gain the Requiescat buff, by having MP under 80% of maximum. So end goal is fundamentally the same, spam x button for y times while buff is active.

[ninninin]

I might be wrong but pld doesn't seem to like the fact that they have to sacrifice dps for heal. Maybe they could have Heal Over Time ability like regen instead since PLD is like Gladiator+WHM. And then GNB could have instant aurora. However at the moment aurora being HOT provide gnb a tool to build more aggro while pulling in dungeon. I'm not sure which way they prefer.

On magical barrier topic. Since barrier is the same because it create extra hp bar it would still be the same when thrill also create extra hp bar.
If you make this barrier only negate magical attack then it could just end up being a gimmick like dark mind.

[A-Omega]

-Bloodbath lvl 8 heals for 25% of damage dealt -> Nascent Flash lvl 76 and originally couldn’t be used on self…but we were just whining right. It’s not a broken version of what we already had? That didn’t need fixed tho. WAR mains are just spoiled.
-1st place damage dropped to 3rd at best but that’s fine right. Since I see so much PLD talk, why wasn’t PLD being able to block magic ok? Same with PLD and not having a gap closer. Same with “Why don’t we do as much damage as WAR” until PLD was made 1st/2nd in Shadowbringers. I can keep going.
-Foresight lvl 2 20% mitigation…gone
-Deliverance lvl 52 5% damage increase w/ a stacking 2% crit increase, up to 5. Our job’s identity…gone
-Fracture lvl 6 100 potency, for 30 seconds…gone. Oh, PLD still have Goring Blade tho.
-Steel Cyclone lvl 46, health damage returned as health…feature gone and with it, low lvl survivability. That’s not bad tho…right.
-Mercy Stroke, Brutal Swing(stun but hey…PLD still has shield bash), Butchers Block…all damage skills and all gone with nothing in their place.
What we DID get in Shadowbringers…
-Chaotic Cyclone lvl 72…nothing new
-Inner Release lvl 80…we already had that too. Only difference, they removed the 8 second mitigation (I think) that came with the original.
-Already mentioned Nascent Flash lvl 76 which replaced our lvl 8 skill, but for four GCDs at best instead of the original 15 seconds. That’s good right? No self sustain until lvl 76 makes perfect sense even tho PLD has Clemency at lvl 58. No validity to that complaint.
Miss me with the off the mark comments. This wasn’t a case of whiny gamers moaning about a 1% damage loss. This was an entire job ripped apart for no apparent reason. I respect the devs for the updates that made WAR a better version of the nightmare Shadowbringers launch was. The only job that had anywhere near the destruction we endured, DRK. Guess what…they aren’t happy right now either.
So spare me the PLD talk. That’s the ONLY job that gains every single expansion. UNLIKE PLD mains, I’m not asking for anyone to be dismantled so I can hold on to my claim as god every expansion. I’m not jumping on their posts trying to discredit their opinion either. I’m asking for an actual return for all we lost. Identity that goes beyond buffed potency. WAR never felt like this until now and it isn’t a good thing.
If all that and asking for a rework that’s feels complete makes me a spoiled brat bragging for the devs to run to my aid (in some of your opinions)…I’m 100% fine with that. My only goal is for WAR to receive the same tlc other jobs have gotten, instead of watered down reworks of skills we had years ago.

[ninninin]

Pld = have to sacrifice dps for heal.
War = Instant heal with Equilibrium without having to sacrifice dps that could also get a boost by thrill. Nascent Flash life drain is even stronger than bloodbath.

Pld = have to build gauge first before they can use sheltron.
War = Raw Intuition or Nascent Flash right away with Thrill of battle on top if needed.

PLD isn't no.1 in tank dps chart, It's GNB. But you seem be upset by the fact that a tank like PLD manage to do a little more dps than you? are you imply that a job like PLD shouldn't be allow to do equal damage with you? if so where is the balance?

WAR's LV80 action is Inner Chaos not Inner Release.

[A-Omega]

Since were correcting simple mistakes…PLD has an instant heal. Clemency. 1200 potency that restores 50% of your own health, even when you don’t cast it on yourself. In case you didn’t know…WHM Cure II is 700 potency, same with AST Benefic II. Both HEALERS main primary heal. Somehow neglecting to mention that seems way worse then a last word typo, but ehhh….find whatever straws you can to grasp at.

[Shurrikhan]

Since were correcting simple mistakes…PLD has an instant heal. Clemency. 1200 potency that restores 50% of your own health, even when you don’t cast it on yourself. In case you didn’t know…WHM Cure II is 700 potency, same with AST Benefic II. Both HEALERS main primary heal. Somehow neglecting to mention that seems way worse then a last word typo, but ehhh….find whatever straws you can to grasp at.

You're not going to get any reasonable comparison without at least adjusting for traits. A 1200 potency PLD heal only heals for as much as a 923-potency Healer heal. A Solace, in turn, at 700 healer potency, would heal for as much as a 910-potency heal from a Paladin, all while costing only 75 offensive potency compared to continuing to spam Glare, while a Paladin would more than likely be losing an Atonement (550 potency), if not also delaying a Goring Blade refresh and/or application of Requiescat due to the latter's %MP requirement (especially, again, given the lost Atonement, or if there's been considerable downtime reducing Atonement or Riot Blade uses since the last Req cast). And that's assuming it wasn't mid-combo, else the punishment is far worse.

[Vatom]

PLD isn't no.1 in tank dps chart, It's GNB. But you seem be upset by the fact that a tank like PLD manage to do a little more dps than you.

Lol I finally caught up to only to see this one pull back their statement about War having more dps then pld

And I quote "WAR's dps even beat PLD's dps in Diamond EX. PLD Never came close to be a god like WAR in this patch. Ask around."

*Just to note if ever questioned*

But Im not here to throw shade simple to hear out a WAR main that doesn't feel like his class is sufficient and I do agree with him on most parts

[ninninin]

Lol I finally caught up to only to see this one pull back their statement about War having more dps then pld

And I quote "WAR's dps even beat PLD's dps in Diamond EX. PLD Never came close to be a god like WAR in this patch. Ask around."

*Just to note if ever questioned*

But Im not here to throw shade simple to hear out a WAR main that doesn't feel like his class is sufficient and I do agree with him on most parts

Wow Congratulation. *Clap* *Clap* It seem you have been reward after stalking me this far.

Seriously tho. I mention WAR beat PLD dps in diamond EX but did I say it always beat PLD elsewhere? The different between their dps outside of diamond ex is minimal but defensive kit of WAR is always far superior than PLD and that make it close to god. It's funny how you act like *This is my chance to attack* and then forget to use your head.

Since were correcting simple mistakes…PLD has an instant heal. Clemency. 1200 potency that restores 50% of your own health, even when you don’t cast it on yourself. In case you didn’t know…WHM Cure II is 700 potency, same with AST Benefic II. Both HEALERS main primary heal. Somehow neglecting to mention that seems way worse then a last word typo, but ehhh….find whatever straws you can to grasp at.

It trigger gcd which caused dps loss. keep the straws for yourself.