Is Minfilia always useless ?

[omahariptic]

honestly yeah they do her a huge disservice in arr. personally i was really disappointed with her, but there's more to her later in the story.

[Rosenstrauch]

Wasn't the crux of Thancred's arc in SHB the choice to bring back the old Minfilia or let Ryne be her own person and accept the future instead of the past or something mirroring the ascians unwilling to let go of their past?

That is basically how the story goes on an emotional level, yeah. On a logical level, it's so muddied by inconsistent writing that anything from "Ryne is Minfilia reborn, sans memories, and has chosen not to return to that life" to "Minfilia and Ryne are wholly separate individuals and Ryne got her powers while Minfilia adios'd to the aetherial sea" could be what actually happened. The whole thing is rather irritating to try and puzzle out... which is half the reason I'd rather they just bring her back.

[Jojoya]

That is basically how the story goes on an emotional level, yeah. On a logical level, it's so muddied by inconsistent writing that anything from "Ryne is Minfilia reborn, sans memories, and has chosen not to return to that life" to "Minfilia and Ryne are wholly separate individuals and Ryne got her powers while Minfilia adios'd to the aetherial sea" could be what actually happened. The whole thing is rather irritating to try and puzzle out... which is half the reason I'd rather they just bring her back.

She won't be back.

Minfilia got tired of living basically like an Ascian. She left the decision in the hands of the current Minfilia (Ryne) - choose to fight the battle on her own terms, at which point Minfilia would pass on her remaining power before returning to the lifestream, or to give up the battle at which point Minfilia would takeover and become her.

After struggling with her insecurity and doubts in Il Mheg, Rak'tika, and Twine, Ryne finally choose to live and fight on her own terms after the encounter with Ran'jit that turns into the Thancred RP fight. She meets with Minfilia, says she wants to fight and make a difference, Minfilia gifts her with what power she had left and departs.

Minfilia is truly dead now. Ryne is her own separate person.

[Rosenstrauch]

You're not telling me anything I don't already know. Like I said, those are the emotional beats of the story. They make sense. I'm talking about the metaphysical mechanics of Ryne and Minfilia's souls, and how the story fails to consistently define them.

An example: The Warrior of Light (the player) has the Echo because they inherited it from their distant past life as Azem. It's something intrinsic to their very being. This would also be true for Minfilia, as she too possessed the Echo. But there's more than enough evidence in Shadowbringers to suggest that Ryne does not. This would work if Ryne wasn't Minfilia's reincarnation, but a separate person possessed by her ala Lahabrea with Thancred.

But then there's the Quest On Thin Ice, wherein Ryne gets the bright idea to become the primal Shiva. To control a primal in such a fashion, one requires the Echo. The writers know this, because they're the ones who wrote it. The Scions know this, because of firsthand experience. Mikoto—an Archon unaffiliated with the Scions—know this, because it was detailed in the report the Scions made regarding Shiva after the initial encounter with her. Ryne doesn't know this, because she's a teenage girl from a different world who had never even seen a primal before, and whose knowledge of them is entirely from her mentors (you, Thancred, and Urianger).

Somehow, this important bit of information fails to crop up at all in this quest. It's as if the characters simply assumed Ryne had the Echo because "she's a reincarnation of Minfilia".

This isn't the first time this weirdness in their relationship crops up, and it's ignored every single time. Thancred ignores it when Minfilia tells him right to his face what the deal is. The WoL ignores it when relating Thancred and Ryne's story to Sidurgu, who sums it up as "Thancred had to take care of the reincarnation of his dead daughter". Alisaie, Alphinaud, and the WoL ignore it when their discussion of Warriors of Light prompts Ryne to offhandedly mention that she's never heard Hydaelyn speak—even though not too long ago, everyone who had the Echo (or just awakened to it) heard her. And yes, the WoL did hear that, despite some players' insistence to the contrary. And Ryne ignores it in her farewell to Thancred when she thanks him for making her who she is: Ryne and Minfilia.

[Jkap_Goat]

Isnt minfillia really good in Final Fantasy Brave Exvius?

I think shes a good character there with useful abilities

[Riastrad]

You're not telling me anything I don't already know. Like I said, those are the emotional beats of the story. They make sense. I'm talking about the metaphysical mechanics of Ryne and Minfilia's souls, and how the story fails to consistently define them.

An example: The Warrior of Light (the player) has the Echo because they inherited it from their distant past life as Azem. It's something intrinsic to their very being. This would also be true for Minfilia, as she too possessed the Echo. But there's more than enough evidence in Shadowbringers to suggest that Ryne does not. This would work if Ryne wasn't Minfilia's reincarnation, but a separate person possessed by her ala Lahabrea with Thancred.

But then there's the Quest On Thin Ice, wherein Ryne gets the bright idea to become the primal Shiva. To control a primal in such a fashion, one requires the Echo. The writers know this, because they're the ones who wrote it. The Scions know this, because of firsthand experience. Mikoto—an Archon unaffiliated with the Scions—know this, because it was detailed in the report the Scions made regarding Shiva after the initial encounter with her. Ryne doesn't know this, because she's a teenage girl from a different world who had never even seen a primal before, and whose knowledge of them is entirely from her mentors (you, Thancred, and Urianger).

Somehow, this important bit of information fails to crop up at all in this quest. It's as if the characters simply assumed Ryne had the Echo because "she's a reincarnation of Minfilia".

This isn't the first time this weirdness in their relationship crops up, and it's ignored every single time. Thancred ignores it when Minfilia tells him right to his face what the deal is. The WoL ignores it when relating Thancred and Ryne's story to Sidurgu, who sums it up as "Thancred had to take care of the reincarnation of his dead daughter". Alisaie, Alphinaud, and the WoL ignore it when their discussion of Warriors of Light prompts Ryne to offhandedly mention that she's never heard Hydaelyn speak—even though not too long ago, everyone who had the Echo (or just awakened to it) heard her. And yes, the WoL did hear that, despite some players' insistence to the contrary. And Ryne ignores it in her farewell to Thancred when she thanks him for making her who she is: Ryne and Minfilia.

Yup. Just like when we as the WoL/D walk on up to Seto and actually channel Ardbert to give him a moment to say farewell. Ryne litteraly talks about how she can feel Minfillia's presence and describes it as warm.

Then you have that scene in the Tower shortly after the merger between the two. Emet - Selch is explaining how Hydaelyn operates: Enervation, or the power to divide and uses Ryne as an example.

Want for nothing. Nothing denied and all that... May not happen for sure, I'll just keep holding on to that Hope that chorus keeps shouting at me every time I log in.

[hotaruchan]

from world building we get that not everyone with the echo gets the same cool powers. From my Understanding Minfilia got the crap end of the scenerio. she got powers that let here see and find out about all these problems that are arising. but nothing to help her actually do anything about it. Which I think is where her setting up the Scions comes in. bring in people willing and able to do the stuff she herself can't really

[RyuDragnier]

from world building we get that not everyone with the echo gets the same cool powers. From my Understanding Minfilia got the crap end of the scenerio. she got powers that let here see and find out about all these problems that are arising. but nothing to help her actually do anything about it. Which I think is where her setting up the Scions comes in. bring in people willing and able to do the stuff she herself can't really

She's the equivalent of a videogame Producer, she's the one getting all the paperwork and planning done, setting everything up for us in advance and foreseeing possible problems. She herself has no ability to fix the problems directly, but that's where the rest of the team comes into play.

[Eloah]

That is basically how the story goes on an emotional level, yeah. On a logical level, it's so muddied by inconsistent writing that anything from "Ryne is Minfilia reborn, sans memories, and has chosen not to return to that life" to "Minfilia and Ryne are wholly separate individuals and Ryne got her powers while Minfilia adios'd to the aetherial sea" could be what actually happened. The whole thing is rather irritating to try and puzzle out... which is half the reason I'd rather they just bring her back.

Actually the writing isn't as muddled as it may appear. The info we get is consistent with the story beats and what the characters learn. In the beginning we were meant to think that Ryne and all the previous girls were reincarnations of the original Minfilia, but that is not the case. The truth is the girls were reincarnation of themselves, with Minfilia always "controlling" the same soul. It's not stated in game, but the reasoning for this is most likely because Ryne's soul and Minfilia's were once one, making it easier for her to "control". Regardless of the context clues that hint at this, the point is moot, since they merged souls anyway, making Ryne the new "soul jar". Though speculation would have us believe that only two souls that were once one can fully merge. As seen with the two Ascian Primes we see that seperate after significant trauma is induced.

[Rosenstrauch]

The problem with declaring that Ryne is a shard buddy of Minfilia's is something I've already tackled in this thread. It doesn't gel at all with Ryne's apparent lack of the Echo.