This game has serious free-rider problems and it's getting worse. A suggestion.

[Vahlnir]

commendations are really bad as a reward because most people hand them out to others based purely on their role, rather than the individual's performance. and after 3k, you stop getting in-game rewards for it anyway.

Anymore I'm basically forced to throw them at random people because everyone leaves too fast and doesn't bother to give them out themselves.

[Fland]

commendations are really bad as a reward because most people hand them out to others based purely on their role, rather than the individual's performance. and after 3k, you stop getting in-game rewards for it anyway.

Mostly because some roles' performance are easier to gauge than others.

[TeraRamis]

That may be so, and I'm sorry that you've experienced that so often. Personally, I've never seen it, but I haven't done any of the endgame yet, and maybe that's where those folks hang out. However, that has nothing to do with the OP's suggestion, which was to massively overreact as follows:

It happens in any raid I've been in where someone either AFKs or dies immediately and refuses to accept a rez, followed by someone boldly suggesting a kick. All of a sudden, all you see are bleeding hearts screeching at the top of their lungs "HE'S JUST A SPROUT, HOW DARE YOU!" and "CUT THE GUY SOME SLACK, IT'S JUST A GAME," and of course "LOL LOOK AT THIS TRYHARD."

I'm tired of submitting to it. Nobody has a DPS meter in front of them and is asking to kick a person at the bottom it. These are people who are actively doing nothing, and yet their wholesale laziness and commitment to playing the game in a way that weakens a team and leeches off the strength of others always finds its defenders. And the people who only ask that everyone in a group either contribute or leave? They're accused of being too serious; too involved; caring too much - as if anyone should willingly want to waste their time and effort on the behalf of someone who is so bored with the content that they cannot even be bothered to fake trying.

Out society has become so obsessed with defending the abused and the broken - is now so eager to shield these newly-christened victims - that it has turned those who are aggressively manipulative and duplicitous into saints. Every crook is stealing a loaf of bread to feed starving children; every knife-wielding, crazed homeless person is just out there because they lost their job; every psychotic meth-head who beats his wife had a troubled childhood. And no, those serious things are in no way equivalent to abusing game mechanics - but it's the mindset of urgently championing every cause that has trickled its way down into this game. Not everyone is a good person, and they don't all deserve the benefit of the doubt. Hard truths brought to you by the FFXIV general discussion forum.

[Wavaryen]

It happens in any raid I've been in where someone either AFKs or dies immediately and refuses to accept a rez, followed by someone boldly suggesting a kick. All of a sudden, all you see are bleeding hearts screeching at the top of their lungs "HE'S JUST A SPROUT, HOW DARE YOU!" and "CUT THE GUY SOME SLACK, IT'S JUST A GAME," and of course "LOL LOOK AT THIS TRYHARD."

I'm tired of submitting to it. Nobody has a DPS meter in front of them and is asking to kick a person at the bottom it. These are people who are actively doing nothing, and yet their wholesale laziness and commitment to playing the game in a way that weakens a team and leeches off the strength of others always finds its defenders. And the people who only ask that everyone in a group either contribute or leave? They're accused of being too serious; too involved; caring too much - as if anyone should willingly want to waste their time and effort on the behalf of someone who is so bored with the content that they cannot even be bothered to fake trying.

Out society has become so obsessed with defending the abused and the broken - is now so eager to shield these newly-christened victims - that it has turned those who are aggressively manipulative and duplicitous into saints. Every crook is stealing a loaf of bread to feed starving children; every knife-wielding, crazed homeless person is just out there because they lost their job; every psychotic meth-head who beats his wife had a troubled childhood. And no, those serious things are in no way equivalent to abusing game mechanics - but it's the mindset of urgently championing every cause that has trickled its way down into this game. Not everyone is a good person, and they don't all deserve the benefit of the doubt. Hard truths brought to you by the FFXIV general discussion forum.

Or maybe most of us don't think it is that big of a deal, that it is a video game, and if the content can't get done. We will find a new group that gets it done. It has nothing to do with being a good person, The simple fact is a bad group is not that big of a deal. If someone wants to be lazy, more power to them. If they hold us all back, well I can just hit a button and find another group.

[TeraRamis]

If someone wants to be lazy, more power to them.

Well, consider yourself counted amongst the problem children, then. If you're going to justify it, then you're a part of it.

[DPZ2]

Well, consider yourself counted amongst the problem children, then. If you're going to justify it, then you're a part of it.

Good thing you have the ability to exit an instance the second you recognize 'problem children'. That's what you do, right? You abandon the instance and take the penalty in order to keep your sanity, or you set up a PF run and choose who you think you want to play with you rather than some random player.

Or, do you initiate a kick of those who you deem unworthy of your time and let them know in-game?. And then come here and make 'suggestions' to prevent such players from ever gracing your duty finder again.

[Wavaryen]

Well, consider yourself counted amongst the problem children, then. If you're going to justify it, then you're a part of it.

There is no problem, it is a pug setting and people can play how they want in said setting.

The rules and design is clear, and it being the best mmo on the market right now it is hard to argue with the results of a more relaxed mmorpg.


The rules protect these people. You can't shame them into doing better. You can't do anything to them, and if you try you get in trouble. So what makes you think how they playing is wrong with the game design as it is?


You all can not like it. That does not matter. These players are what the game protects and encourages. Who are you to say they are playing wrong? The developers has content made for people who want to try hard, and has content design for people want to be lazy.

[Vahlnir]

If someone wants to be lazy, more power to them.

I think the issue being discussed is largely exaggerated, and I have a pretty big tolerance for most types of players in this game...but this is something I can't (and won't) agree with.

[Ronduwil]

It happens in any raid I've been in where someone either AFKs or dies immediately and refuses to accept a rez, followed by someone boldly suggesting a kick. All of a sudden, all you see are bleeding hearts screeching at the top of their lungs "HE'S JUST A SPROUT, HOW DARE YOU!" and "CUT THE GUY SOME SLACK, IT'S JUST A GAME," and of course "LOL LOOK AT THIS TRYHARD."

That's because some people are too quick to jump to the worst conclusion possible. Stuff happens sometimes. An emergency phone call needs to get answered, an unexpected and important guest arrives at the door, a kid gets hurt and needs assistance, the cat knocks an important router cable out of a socket, or maybe nature called unexpectedly and there was no good opportunity for a break because everyone in the duty raids pulls without ready checks before half the raid is even in the sealed area. I would rather give random players the benefit of the doubt because, as you pointed out, it's only a game. I'm not getting paid to do it, and I honestly don't enjoy the game any less because one guy had to AFK mid-fight. Now, if they're consistently running to boss after boss before parking and doing nothing, then of course I would be inclined to vote kick, and everyone else would too.

Out society has become so obsessed with defending the abused and the broken - is now so eager to shield these newly-christened victims - that it has turned those who are aggressively manipulative and duplicitous into saints. Every crook is stealing a loaf of bread to feed starving children; every knife-wielding, crazed homeless person is just out there because they lost their job; every psychotic meth-head who beats his wife had a troubled childhood.

I see it the other way. Society has become so obsessed with the idea that everyone else is gaming the system that they see nefarious plots everywhere. For example, there's all this outrage about the U.S. estate tax, and the people who get angriest about it don't even realize that the first $11.7 million of their estate is completely exempt from the tax. My in-laws are constantly complaining about welfare even though they themselves have collected disability for years and have received millions of dollars worth of free healthcare through medicaid. We have a deadly virus that's rampaging around the world, and people (like my mother in law) are refusing a life-saving vaccine on suspicion of a socialist government agenda -- an agenda to make sure everyone stays healthy so that we can safely get back to business as usual. This unhealthy obsession with preventing others from receiving unearned benefits isn't moving us forward as a society.

[Ursa_Vonfiebryd]

I remember a lot of posts like this back in the Eureka days, where people would AFK at spawn points which is actually not as bad as this because it was generally accepted that if you were two levels or more above the mob level, you let those people who can benefit from killing the mobs go at it while you wait for the NM spawn. (They also introduced the inaction timer to battle this).

I've noticed freeriding more on my alt and not in Bozja content (which I don't do). But a lot in trials and normal raids. Characters will either just stand there and auto attack or die to mechs and not accept raises. I've had some that purposely dc then re-enter the instance. There are two main factors: you can't kick while in battle or when loot is present. People have been abusing those two rules a lot more lately for some reason.