STOP Genderlocking Cosmetics!!

[Driavna]

this old Shortpacked! comic

How's that comic relevant in any way? The supposed premise is trying to expose is false and outright insults anyone's with a modicum of intelligence.

[Vav2021]

Whenever you see someone start a gender-themed thread, and they have to post an edit because they're upset, it's going to be /popcorn material.

[Stachiko]

Can I just add they need to fix the male lip colors? That's like a 2 second alpha value change.

Why is the alpha so low on it? Why do the women's lips pop but the men get diluted coloration? It bothers me so much.

[Packetdancer]

How's that comic relevant in any way? The supposed premise is trying to expose is false and outright insults anyone's with a modicum of intelligence.

Relevant inasmuch as folks were seemingly arguing in absolutes about how it would be awful to see guys dressed in "less masculine" things (or whether women should be dressed in "more feminine" things). Even just treating it aesthetically, not everyone will find a muscled uber-macho guy appealing (witness the sketch in the comic, of what she'd find attractive in Batman). Nor will everyone find a softer, less Rambo guy appealing. If that didn't come across clearly in referencing the comic (and my stated caveat), then I apologize for the misfire.

For me, personally, I don't care to dress my character—either of them—in overly-feminine things. Much like me-the-player, the in-game aesthetic I go for is generally tomboyish (with a few exceptions). When I saw the icons for the YoRHa Type-51 chest gear—all those lovely 9S-inspired coats and vests and stuff—I was thrilled. And then I tried one on and... somehow, magically, it was a dress instead. That gave me Great Sadness, because that's not the aesthetic I want for my character. Give me the level 90 GNB artifact gear over the level 90 WHM artifact gear any day.

But others love to dress their characters in the most frilly, flowery things they can. (And then, frequently, carry a giant DRK sword.) And that's fine too.

In short: Options are great. Can we please have more?

[Illmaeran]

Or perhaps people just have different tastes in what they find attractive?

Am I the odd one out? Maybe. But at least the character designers seem to be on my wavelength.

You're not alone. I've got the muscle slider up all the way on my guy because of the slight increase in bulk, while keeping the appearance of body fat normal for an active person.

The slider on my Femroe is all the way down because as much as I appreciate her musculature, I don't want her looking like a 0% body fat body builder.

I mean if girls have the option to look super feminine or tomboyish while being able to look attractive as both, I don't see why guys have to choose between feminine or featureless. It wouldn't even be breaching into fanservice territory moreso just a proper representation of a masculine body.

What we see as girly-thin and/or not masculine here in the West is considered masculine, cool, and desireable in Japan. It doesn't surprise me at all that the majority of bodies are on the slender side, or athletic-but-not-hugely-muscular. A highlander with the proportional musculature of a HeRoe would be seen as pretty gross.

We can disagree with body and musculature design all we want, but in the end we have to accept that character design is based on Japanese aesthetics first and foremost.

[Euphares]

You're not alone. I've got the muscle slider up all the way on my guy because of the slight increase in bulk, while keeping the appearance of body fat normal for an active person.

The slider on my Femroe is all the way down because as much as I appreciate her musculature, I don't want her looking like a 0% body fat body builder.



What we see as girly-thin and/or not masculine here in the West is considered masculine, cool, and desireable in Japan. It doesn't surprise me at all that the majority of bodies are on the slender side, or athletic-but-not-hugely-muscular. A highlander with the proportional musculature of a HeRoe would be seen as pretty gross.

We can disagree with body and musculature design all we want, but in the end we have to accept that character design is based on Japanese aesthetics first and foremost.

You seem to misunderstand me. Of course this is all my opinion. I never speak objectively. Furthermore I am very aware of Eastern Male Beauty standards, but even in regards to those it still falls flat in my eyes, because again, 95% of the appeal of playing a guy character right now is centered around the face. Which even then, males are still lacking in that regard too.

I am not suggesting any editing of bodies that require a new-model or extensive work on an existing model, that's simply out of the picture and would only serve to benefit the alleged minority.


I am asking them to improve what we currently have, slender =/= featureless.


The current male bodies are unnaturally smooth and doll-like, but not even in a boyish or appealing way. It doesn't matter how masculine/feminine, thin/thick you are. If you have little to no body fat and are physically active, you will have defined muscles, in fact the bodies in-game currently have these features to a degree. Just in a very poor way. In my opinion, this has nothing really to do with Eastern vs Western cultural things and more to do with just shoddy modeling and visual work.

And no, defined muscles =/= looking ripped or like a gymrat, it just means your body doesn't look weirdly plastic. You can literally go in game and compare Female NPC's wearing swimwear to male NPC's wearing swimwear, the difference is really stark. One is designed to look appealing and the other is designed just to complete a pair with no thought given to how to make it look nice.


In regards to gear, I am simply asking for male armor/glamor to be better fitted to accent a male body properly, unless your preference is an unnatural bodytype, this really shouldn't be seen as changing any character's identity at all. It just makes sense (to me.) And would give male players the same satisfaction that female players do in designing and looking at visuals.

[Hazama999]

Was sad to see the leg gear (the tights) of the Thavnairian Bustier set being altered for males. They were changed to shorts. Granted, it wasn't too drastic a change, and I can simply just wear something else... but I thought we were fine with male characters wearing a bikini-style leg gear. Coeurl beach briefs are a thing.

I guess I should be grateful they at least didn't turn into blue jeans or something...

/shrug

[Gothicshark]

"Everyone I don't like is a bigot, and this place has no rules because they aren't silenced"

Also just to clarify, this isnt really a discussion.

They've objectively put far more work into making traditionally feminine "sexy glamours" available to male presenting characters and releasing uwu bunny boys as soon as possible than they have into the opposite for female presenting characters and we still dont even know when female hrothgar are coming. This is just fact.

There are actual homophobes and transphobes on these forums, who display actual bigotry and hate, that is not a case of like or dislike, and the forum moderators don't respond to reports of it when made.

[Illmaeran]

95% of the appeal of playing a guy character right now is centered around the face. Which even then, males are still lacking in that regard too.

it just means your body doesn't look weirdly plastic.

In regards to gear, I am simply asking for male armor/glamor to be better fitted to accent a male body properly, unless your preference is an unnatural bodytype, this really shouldn't be seen as changing any character's identity at all. It just makes sense (to me.) And would give male players the same satisfaction that female players do in designing and looking at visuals.

1. Faces - I agree and disagree. I do appreciate the less square-jawed John Wayne features in favor of the finer-boned looks available to Elezen...BUT, BUT, BUT....unless you've got really pale skin those features don't show well. Unless I'm in the proper light, looking at the proper angle, my guy looks remarkably like Liv Tyler. She's a beautiful woman, but makes a horrible man.

2. I get you now that you said "weirdly plastic". I agree; I look like a grey-skinned Ken doll under the garments. Until now I've passed that off as a limitation of the graphics engine coupled with aesthetic choices on the character design team. What's been seen cannot be unseen...thank you?

3. Gear- YES! I'd love to see more outfits designed specifically to be men's clothes. I've found some combinations of things that fit my character very well "physically" and thematically, but some more outfits that aren't Aiming/Western or the Urban Coat, Calfskin set, Noctis set, and similar would be appreciated.


3b. No, not 2b. 3b. I'd also like to see female versions of outfits such as the Ishgardian noblewomen's outfits that are analogous to the Alpine Coat we get in the MSQ.




Back on topic: I don't want to see an increase in non-gender locked outfits. Just like AF gear indicates a class, certain clothing styles (Maid's outfit, etc) equals female in my mind and is jarring to see a bunch of males running around in it.

[KizuyaKatogami]

As a gay dude I agree with this. It really grosses me out when people throw around the homophobia/transphobic card just because they're trying to get their way... It's embarrassing. Masculine options in both character customization and glamour is lacking, we need more of a variety and right now it's leaning too much towards the opposing side.

Yup agreed, also as a gay guy. Im tired of seeing the constant feminine outfits or "gender neutral" outfits that lean towards feminine. Masculine outfits and styles are pretty rare, especially if you play a healer. I'd say wait for that to get balanced before asking for dev time to be put towards taking off genderlocks of other gear. They couldnt even give us the 9s outfit for the nier raid, instead we only got the 2b outfit which is entirely feminine