STOP Genderlocking Cosmetics!!

[Euphares]

Or perhaps people just have different tastes in what they find attractive?

I don't want my male characters to be more muscular than they currently are. I think defined muscles look ugly. My characters look fine right now (and I enjoy making glamours for my male characters as much as female).

Am I the odd one out? Maybe. But at least the character designers seem to be on my wavelength.

They wouldn't become more muscular in theory, but would instead just have their natural muscle definition shown (which is already present on some items I might add.) Additionally there is a muscle slider, so its pretty clear to me the devs want to appease both preferences, but do a poor job appealing to the latter, hell to literally anyone that prefers anything but a super smooth washboard body-type they're basically out of luck.


Even more lithe/young/lanky characters would have muscle definition due to having little to no body fat and being (presumably) physically active. The current state of things is just unnatural and looks uncanny imo.



I know what's popular and I am aware of the logic in appealing to what's popular, but I think for a game that tries to ground itself in realism or at the very least define itself as not being "just another anime game" there are areas of design that need to be addressed.




I mean if girls have the option to look super feminine or tomboyish while being able to look attractive as both, I don't see why guys have to choose between feminine or featureless. It wouldn't even be breaching into fanservice territory moreso just a proper representation of a masculine body.

[Iscah]

Additionally there is a muscle slider, so its pretty clear to me the devs want to appease both preferences

The only races that get muscle sliders are Hyur and Roegadyn – the ones that don't need a slider for novelty features like ear and tail length. It is quite possibly a case of "we have to give them something". Or perhaps it was a thing they wanted for everyone but the others needed other features more.

Either way, not all characters have a muscle slider.

I mean if girls have the option to look super feminine or tomboyish while being able to look attractive as both, I don't see why guys have to choose between feminine or featureless.

I'm a bit confused whether you're still on body shape or not, but the "feminine or tomboy" thing for girls comes down to hair and outfit choice, so the equivalent is what range male characters have, and I think they do have a range of options. I'm not trying to achieve a super-manly character design but I think there's a long way between feminine and the softer type of masculine at least, and that's what appeals to me.

Also I've never gotten the impression that they're trying to sell it as "not an anime game". The exact art style isn't there, but the approach to character design is similar nevertheless.

Also, playing different characters has given me the impression that it's rarely about gear pieces looking "good" or "bad" but finding the right character that it works for. (I don't have a male Roegadyn but I did make one to try gear on at the marketboard one time – and while some things do fit them badly, I thought there were some other gear pieces that looked different and interesting on them.)

[Illmaeran]

Or perhaps people just have different tastes in what they find attractive?

Am I the odd one out? Maybe. But at least the character designers seem to be on my wavelength.

You're not alone. I've got the muscle slider up all the way on my guy because of the slight increase in bulk, while keeping the appearance of body fat normal for an active person.

The slider on my Femroe is all the way down because as much as I appreciate her musculature, I don't want her looking like a 0% body fat body builder.

I mean if girls have the option to look super feminine or tomboyish while being able to look attractive as both, I don't see why guys have to choose between feminine or featureless. It wouldn't even be breaching into fanservice territory moreso just a proper representation of a masculine body.

What we see as girly-thin and/or not masculine here in the West is considered masculine, cool, and desireable in Japan. It doesn't surprise me at all that the majority of bodies are on the slender side, or athletic-but-not-hugely-muscular. A highlander with the proportional musculature of a HeRoe would be seen as pretty gross.

We can disagree with body and musculature design all we want, but in the end we have to accept that character design is based on Japanese aesthetics first and foremost.

[Euphares]

You're not alone. I've got the muscle slider up all the way on my guy because of the slight increase in bulk, while keeping the appearance of body fat normal for an active person.

The slider on my Femroe is all the way down because as much as I appreciate her musculature, I don't want her looking like a 0% body fat body builder.



What we see as girly-thin and/or not masculine here in the West is considered masculine, cool, and desireable in Japan. It doesn't surprise me at all that the majority of bodies are on the slender side, or athletic-but-not-hugely-muscular. A highlander with the proportional musculature of a HeRoe would be seen as pretty gross.

We can disagree with body and musculature design all we want, but in the end we have to accept that character design is based on Japanese aesthetics first and foremost.

You seem to misunderstand me. Of course this is all my opinion. I never speak objectively. Furthermore I am very aware of Eastern Male Beauty standards, but even in regards to those it still falls flat in my eyes, because again, 95% of the appeal of playing a guy character right now is centered around the face. Which even then, males are still lacking in that regard too.

I am not suggesting any editing of bodies that require a new-model or extensive work on an existing model, that's simply out of the picture and would only serve to benefit the alleged minority.


I am asking them to improve what we currently have, slender =/= featureless.


The current male bodies are unnaturally smooth and doll-like, but not even in a boyish or appealing way. It doesn't matter how masculine/feminine, thin/thick you are. If you have little to no body fat and are physically active, you will have defined muscles, in fact the bodies in-game currently have these features to a degree. Just in a very poor way. In my opinion, this has nothing really to do with Eastern vs Western cultural things and more to do with just shoddy modeling and visual work.

And no, defined muscles =/= looking ripped or like a gymrat, it just means your body doesn't look weirdly plastic. You can literally go in game and compare Female NPC's wearing swimwear to male NPC's wearing swimwear, the difference is really stark. One is designed to look appealing and the other is designed just to complete a pair with no thought given to how to make it look nice.


In regards to gear, I am simply asking for male armor/glamor to be better fitted to accent a male body properly, unless your preference is an unnatural bodytype, this really shouldn't be seen as changing any character's identity at all. It just makes sense (to me.) And would give male players the same satisfaction that female players do in designing and looking at visuals.

[Illmaeran]

95% of the appeal of playing a guy character right now is centered around the face. Which even then, males are still lacking in that regard too.

it just means your body doesn't look weirdly plastic.

In regards to gear, I am simply asking for male armor/glamor to be better fitted to accent a male body properly, unless your preference is an unnatural bodytype, this really shouldn't be seen as changing any character's identity at all. It just makes sense (to me.) And would give male players the same satisfaction that female players do in designing and looking at visuals.

1. Faces - I agree and disagree. I do appreciate the less square-jawed John Wayne features in favor of the finer-boned looks available to Elezen...BUT, BUT, BUT....unless you've got really pale skin those features don't show well. Unless I'm in the proper light, looking at the proper angle, my guy looks remarkably like Liv Tyler. She's a beautiful woman, but makes a horrible man.

2. I get you now that you said "weirdly plastic". I agree; I look like a grey-skinned Ken doll under the garments. Until now I've passed that off as a limitation of the graphics engine coupled with aesthetic choices on the character design team. What's been seen cannot be unseen...thank you?

3. Gear- YES! I'd love to see more outfits designed specifically to be men's clothes. I've found some combinations of things that fit my character very well "physically" and thematically, but some more outfits that aren't Aiming/Western or the Urban Coat, Calfskin set, Noctis set, and similar would be appreciated.


3b. No, not 2b. 3b. I'd also like to see female versions of outfits such as the Ishgardian noblewomen's outfits that are analogous to the Alpine Coat we get in the MSQ.




Back on topic: I don't want to see an increase in non-gender locked outfits. Just like AF gear indicates a class, certain clothing styles (Maid's outfit, etc) equals female in my mind and is jarring to see a bunch of males running around in it.