SMN endgame how is it

[Raikai]

Okay, lets break down FFXIV Egis based on your design requirements and how they relate to FFXIV battle structure.

1. Lets tackle movement and health first since they go hand in hand. FFXIV battle design is built around dodging and it's very hard as well as time consuming to command your pet to move out of the AoE all the time, we first had that in 2013 and didn't work out well. Slowly pets started taking less and less damage because of this until the devs decided it wasn't really necessary to take damage considering how Demi mechanics worked; fresh egi is summoned after Demi phase.
   
2. Skill Management: Egi Assault check the box there, doesn't it? You are commanding the pet to perform an ability. Now I can't say if it's faster now than clicking skills pre 5.0 but you can't just leave them on auto pilot anymore. Egi Assault make you command your pet which is what people wanted.
   
3. Let's talk about our tank pet though if we could and why it didn't work from the start. It was only good during solo situation because it's enmity was so low, it couldn't even manage to pickup adds if the tank died. Couple that with losing Egi when a Demi is summoned, you can see the writing on the wall that Egi Tanks days are numbered. I think getting a good shield is a nice trade off considering I can enter Demi Phases without any worries now.

1. You're right, my point was that this movement managing mechanics can't be translated well into XIV's combat. And not just about them taking damage, but swapping targets is part of that micromanagement too, and it is a nuisance when the SMN has (had?) to do in XIV.

2. Egi-Assault - seems - to do, but in my point of view is more of a faux thing, because it's a spell that affects your flow (GCD), even though it is launched by the pet. Visually it feels like is a pet action, but in practice it works more like a SMN action that has a pet component to it. To be fair, it felt much less like that when it was an oGCD, but it had other issues though.

3. I agree that the tanking egi didn't work. Seems they didn't care a lot about Titan when they were designing the Demis, given the fact that the tank usability was so niche. It would be okay if the Demis didn't despawn the egis, but I'm not sure if that is because of the combat engine/code.

To note, I don't mind Egis, but they are in a some sort of weird middle point between a pet and the so called "glorified dot". I wish they either went to one or the other side of the spectrum... The pet side is unlikely due to it requiring technical overhauls.. the other side (that is even beyond the glorified dot thing) means a complete overhaul that makes the creatures tied to the SMN's spell animations/SFX. That seemed more plausible, but I had the impression that during the benchmark trailer, the Ifrit-egi still happened to be its own entity, so I'm not quite sure how it will turn out to be.

Also, to add to my previous post, the idea of a "pet job" to me entails into other 2 things, from all the other MMOs I've played with pets:

a) At low skill levels, is a beginner friendly class, because the team play, even if flawed and sub optimal, increases your survivability
b) At the skill ceilings, it's a class that (in theory if well balanced) rewards players that can multi task between them and the pet

XIV's iteration of pets right now doesn't fill either of those.

[Grimoire-M]

The pet doesn't really bother me. Personally, I feel like it's actually not that fun to play mainly because of how disjointed everything feels. None of SMN's tools seem to have anything to do with one another outside of just being on the same hotbar. In contrast, the majority of BLM's spells all have a very important purpose that strings your combo together. Fire refreshes your Astral Fire, Fire III is what helps you swap back to Astral Fire from Umbral Ice, and on the flipside, Blizzard IV is working to give you free Despair/Flare casts, Freeze maxes out your Umbral Ice right away so you can get straight into your combo, and it all feels more cohesive. This is something that doesn't bother everyone, it seems, and so it really depends on the person.

This is why I want Aetherflow back on Summoner. It reconnects elements that were made disparate during Shadowbringers, allows SE to trait upgrade Energy Drain/Siphon into Fester/Painflare, and facilitates flexing Trances around mechanics. It solves multiple problems within the levelling and endgame rotation. To me it’s a no-brainer. But we’ll see what SE actually does.

[abesut]

Well according to the benchmark trailer, we are going to re-learn summoner, since it seems they are moving in the direction of an Invoker; like SMN using Ifrits Fire Dash as gap closer.

[wereotter]

Well according to the benchmark trailer, we are going to re-learn summoner, since it seems they are moving in the direction of an Invoker; like SMN using Ifrits Fire Dash as gap closer.

I am very curious about that move to be sure. I can't think of much of a reason that as a summoner I would actively WANT to dash into melee range, except maybe just to be there for stack mechanics? But if they attach damage to the dash, then you're going to end up with a caster that just wants to always sit in melee range since you don't want the animation lock for doing the dash nor would you want to deal with moving back while trying to cast (assuming egi assault and ruin 4 also get changed)

[Tulzscha]

i genuinely don't understand why so many people bring this up. you would rip hate off of titan if you did so much as crit a dot tick. like topaz was decent when you were just an arcanist i guess but if you were remotely competent as a SMN you were already destroying titan's enmity generation within just a few levels of even unlocking it, let alone as a geared lv70 player.

It was nice for holding extra mobs, that's about it. I like the shield much better, it has a lot more applications and works when Bahamut or Phoenix are out. I've never been a fan of pets though, some people like the fantasy of pets that can hold their own.

I am very curious about that move to be sure. I can't think of much of a reason that as a summoner I would actively WANT to dash into melee range, except maybe just to be there for stack mechanics? But if they attach damage to the dash, then you're going to end up with a caster that just wants to always sit in melee range since you don't want the animation lock for doing the dash nor would you want to deal with moving back while trying to cast (assuming egi assault and ruin 4 also get changed)

Other than stack mechanics there are donut aoes, getting in range for heals, moving out of aoe circles, or as an assist in moving across a room. If it deals dmg it'd have to deal more than alternative options or be ogcd to justify using on cd which imo would be silly though RDM has to deal with that (which is still silly) so maybe. If SMN keeps its instant casts it'll have no problem moving around, I'm more worried about how it'd clash with mechanics.

[wereotter]

Other than stack mechanics there are donut aoes, getting in range for heals, moving out of aoe circles, or as an assist in moving across a room. If it deals dmg it'd have to deal more than alternative options or be ogcd to justify using on cd which imo would be silly though RDM has to deal with that (which is still silly) so maybe. If SMN keeps its instant casts it'll have no problem moving around, I'm more worried about how it'd clash with mechanics.

Typically I'm not so far out of rang that I miss heals, unless a white mage wants us all holding hands so they can use Cure 3, which basically follows the same as a stack mechanic. But sure for the donut shaped AOE attacks. Either way, I just hope that it's a movement still ONLY and not something they attach damage to. If they make it something that is in the same vein of shoulder tackle/spineshatter dive/plunge/corps-a-corps.... it will end up something you must use on cooldown else you're losing DPS, and it looses some of its viability as a movement skill.

[SweetPete]

Well according to the benchmark trailer, we are going to re-learn summoner, since it seems they are moving in the direction of an Invoker; like SMN using Ifrits Fire Dash as gap closer.

Doesn’t mean it’s becoming an invoker. We saw one skill. Doesn’t mean one thing. Plus it was probably a very old build. Allot could of changed. So we know nothing. The devs are keeping summoner changes highly secret. They didn’t show much at all.

[NoxLumina]

You want do deal with brain-dead pets and ghosting your group damage buff?
Welcome to SMN

[DBriggs304]

I was trying to keep the theme with my "Rydia" toon and do SMN/SCH, but it was so boring to me (especially SCH) that I switched to AST the second 8 could play the class.

[KitKatnip]

I wondered why my supposedly tanking yellow pet never actually held aggro with anything. Now it makes sense.