Please call it "Daily Maintenance"!

[Mushy]

from the mouths of the developers themselves: these tools, this client, the server is junk this is why they are making 2.0. i repeat THIS IS WHY THEY ARE MAKING 2.0. and to Deatheye the people responsible for the problem did lose their job. remember? Now they can only work with what they got while they develop a completely new client/server side putting in the current stuff too, and continuing the port to PS3. they are stretched. This is very different than your job deatheye. doing roll outs and checking load stability is very different than managing a team of coders(many types), artists(many types), engineers(many types), and the testers. If you could do any better apply at square and fix all their issues(ohhh wait...)

[Deatheye]

from the mouths of the developers themselves: these tools, this client, the server is junk this is why they are making 2.0. i repeat THIS IS WHY THEY ARE MAKING 2.0. and to Deatheye the people responsible for the problem did lose their job. remember? Now they can only work with what they got while they develop a completely new client/server side putting in the current stuff too, and continuing the port to PS3. they are stretched. This is very different than your job deatheye. doing roll outs and checking load stability is very different than managing a team of coders(many types), artists(many types), engineers(many types), and the testers. If you could do any better apply at square and fix all their issues(ohhh wait...)

Not really. I have projects too where I need to talk to different companys cause on makes the Database, one the software that uses the database, I need to set up the basic network, server, client infrastructure etc.
There are specialist for different softwares, for specific Hardware / Infrastructure parts.
We need to coordinate between companys and inside they different companys they need to coordinate there teams / teammembers.

Sure SE has propably more people involved, the project itself is on a bigger scale. But the basics are the same.
If the difference is just about the scale of the project, I'm sure there are people out there that have to deal with bigger projects than I have to.
And it's really wierd that I can't remember any other MMORPG (and I played a few) where every patch seems to put unfinished stuff out, cause new problems and a lot more downtime then anticipated.

And with so many emergency patches, thats also not a good sign.... emergency... says it all, doesn't it?

In regards to 2.0 we are going again to the point: I can't tell my customers I screwed up int he past that's why now everything new is screwed up too.

If a company makes an error that hunts them they have to live with the consequences which are unhappy customers.

Developing a patch is worlds different from applying a patch. For one, the developers run their updates through the QA team, meaning that if the QA team didn't find whatever was wrong, someone dropped the ball there. In a game of this scale, patches such as these are being built upon tons and tons of preexisting systems, some of which likely haven't been touched by a developer in years. A simple off-by-one error, a precondition check that was ">" instead of ">=," something that would only be discovered in an extreme edge case condition. Unless you can design an AI that simulates EVERY possible thing a real human player could do at EVERY instance of play and let it run automatically (and people have tried) there's no way a QA team is going to catch such a rare instance of instability. For games that receive updates that affect core systems, the last line of QA is unfortunately the players.


Basically: deal with it. Better things get fixed that left in a crappy condition.

The issues we're having this time are likely the result of the team squeezing out what they can with the current engine and server architecture. They've said it before, this engine is not ideal, they're trying to appease us with new fixes and content but the core systems are only designed to do so much, they're not very robust like that. I mean, have you seen what happens when you purchase an item using Item Search? It goes into the instance, buys the item, then exits the instance, without actually loading the market ward zone, that's why it lags. If that's not a hack-a-round, I don't know what is.

Is it just me or does it seem like SE is the only one mmorpg company having so regularly emergency patches?

I know from other MMORPGs there is always something wrong with a patch. And that I can understand. Goes back to what you allready explained. But it never seemes to be so bad to varant an emergency patch.

And I also have basic programming skills. So I know how a something little like a wrong space or a missing "!" or what ever can totaly screw you up.

Telling a customer to

deal with it.

is not the way to have a customer relationship... what every the cause.

[Zyph]

Is it just me or does it seem like SE is the only one mmorpg company having so regularly emergency patches?

I know from other MMORPGs there is always something wrong with a patch. And that I can understand. Goes back to what you allready explained. But it never seemes to be so bad to varant an emergency patch.

And I also have basic programming skills. So I know how a something little like a wrong space or a missing "!" or what ever can totaly screw you up.

Telling a customer to

is not the way to have a customer relationship... what every the cause.

Trion dropped the ball just like this in Rift many times. CCP has also had their share. In Trion's case, they're working with the Gamebryo engine, which is one of the buggiest widely used engines on the market, and in CCP's case they're constantly pushing new engineering ideas into play with thier servers, so a bumpy road is expected.

I'm am 100% convinced that a lot of this is not solely the developers fault. Crystal Tools is not a robust engine, if anything it's flimsy as hell. I don't program for SE, but I'd imagine the game code to look pretty similar to being held together with popsicle sticks and chewing gum.

SE is not the one telling it's players to "Deal with it." Of course that's bad PR. But I am saying that a 4 hour maintenance is nothing to get your jimmies rustled over, and with a game like this players should be prepared for this to happen.

[Deatheye]

Trion dropped the ball just like this in Rift many times. CCP has also had their share. In Trion's case, they're working with the Gamebryo engine, which is one of the buggiest widely used engines on the market, and in CCP's case they're constantly pushing new engineering ideas into play with thier servers, so a bumpy road is expected.

Hmm I played Rift at release, If I remember correctly even the beta. But I can't remember anything leaving me with so many bad impressions as SE does. CCP is Eve isn't it? I played two chars parallel and that also didn't leave so many bad impressions as SE does. Not sure why. Maybe it's just cause I'm deeper in to FFXIV then I was into any of those two games...

SE is not the one telling it's players to "Deal with it." Of course that's bad PR.

That was more directed towards the people sprouting that line around then towards SE. But indirectly SE actually does that too. Everytime they tell you it comes with 2.0. They just take a bit more care of theyr PR.

But I am saying that a 4 hour maintenance is nothing to get your jimmies rustled over, and with a game like this players should be prepared for this to happen.

It's not really about just one 4 hour maintanance. It's more about that in my opinion the emergency patches get to much. I would rather prefer to have something like a weekly standard maintanance window where you actualy can plan around it then to have unpreditable breaks all the time.
From other MMORPGs I'm used to less emergency patches. Little problems get fixed in standard patch windows and only big ones actually get an emergency window. If if those all actually are problems worth an emergency patch then we are back to something needs to change.

[Zyph]

Hmm I played Rift at release, If I remember correctly even the beta. But I can't remember anything leaving me with so many bad impressions as SE does. CCP is Eve isn't it? I played two chars parallel and that also didn't leave so many bad impressions as SE does. Not sure why. Maybe it's just cause I'm deeper in to FFXIV then I was into any of those two games...


That was more directed towards the people sprouting that line around then towards SE. But indirectly SE actually does that too. Everytime they tell you it comes with 2.0. They just take a bit more care of theyr PR.






It's not really about just one 4 hour maintanance. It's more about that in my opinion the emergency patches get to much. I would rather prefer to have something like a weekly standard maintanance window where you actualy can plan around it then to have unpreditable breaks all the time.
From other MMORPGs I'm used to less emergency patches. Little problems get fixed in standard patch windows and only big ones actually get an emergency window. If if those all actually are problems worth an emergency patch then we are back to something needs to change.

I get you, maybe the taste of the horrendous launch still lingers for you, I know it does for me still, that's why I think 2.0, even if it doesn't deliver in everything it promised, will be a breath of fresh air.

But yeah, that's the nature of MMOs, something unforeseen will happen and break when you crowd-source your QA to the players. Typically that's what test servers are for, but even then test servers never ever get the traffic and APM that the live servers do.

It's just happening more frequently for FFXIV due to the engine and duct-tape patches.

Maybe I'm just used to this process, therefor am never surprised. I'm sure the entire FFXIV team, from QA to devs to management to Yoshi-P are all sick of this cycle, which is probably why they're just as excited for 2.0 as the rest of us.