Please call it "Daily Maintenance"!

[Mushy]

from the mouths of the developers themselves: these tools, this client, the server is junk this is why they are making 2.0. i repeat THIS IS WHY THEY ARE MAKING 2.0. and to Deatheye the people responsible for the problem did lose their job. remember? Now they can only work with what they got while they develop a completely new client/server side putting in the current stuff too, and continuing the port to PS3. they are stretched. This is very different than your job deatheye. doing roll outs and checking load stability is very different than managing a team of coders(many types), artists(many types), engineers(many types), and the testers. If you could do any better apply at square and fix all their issues(ohhh wait...)

[Deatheye]

from the mouths of the developers themselves: these tools, this client, the server is junk this is why they are making 2.0. i repeat THIS IS WHY THEY ARE MAKING 2.0. and to Deatheye the people responsible for the problem did lose their job. remember? Now they can only work with what they got while they develop a completely new client/server side putting in the current stuff too, and continuing the port to PS3. they are stretched. This is very different than your job deatheye. doing roll outs and checking load stability is very different than managing a team of coders(many types), artists(many types), engineers(many types), and the testers. If you could do any better apply at square and fix all their issues(ohhh wait...)

Not really. I have projects too where I need to talk to different companys cause on makes the Database, one the software that uses the database, I need to set up the basic network, server, client infrastructure etc.
There are specialist for different softwares, for specific Hardware / Infrastructure parts.
We need to coordinate between companys and inside they different companys they need to coordinate there teams / teammembers.

Sure SE has propably more people involved, the project itself is on a bigger scale. But the basics are the same.
If the difference is just about the scale of the project, I'm sure there are people out there that have to deal with bigger projects than I have to.
And it's really wierd that I can't remember any other MMORPG (and I played a few) where every patch seems to put unfinished stuff out, cause new problems and a lot more downtime then anticipated.

And with so many emergency patches, thats also not a good sign.... emergency... says it all, doesn't it?

In regards to 2.0 we are going again to the point: I can't tell my customers I screwed up int he past that's why now everything new is screwed up too.

If a company makes an error that hunts them they have to live with the consequences which are unhappy customers.

Developing a patch is worlds different from applying a patch. For one, the developers run their updates through the QA team, meaning that if the QA team didn't find whatever was wrong, someone dropped the ball there. In a game of this scale, patches such as these are being built upon tons and tons of preexisting systems, some of which likely haven't been touched by a developer in years. A simple off-by-one error, a precondition check that was ">" instead of ">=," something that would only be discovered in an extreme edge case condition. Unless you can design an AI that simulates EVERY possible thing a real human player could do at EVERY instance of play and let it run automatically (and people have tried) there's no way a QA team is going to catch such a rare instance of instability. For games that receive updates that affect core systems, the last line of QA is unfortunately the players.


Basically: deal with it. Better things get fixed that left in a crappy condition.

The issues we're having this time are likely the result of the team squeezing out what they can with the current engine and server architecture. They've said it before, this engine is not ideal, they're trying to appease us with new fixes and content but the core systems are only designed to do so much, they're not very robust like that. I mean, have you seen what happens when you purchase an item using Item Search? It goes into the instance, buys the item, then exits the instance, without actually loading the market ward zone, that's why it lags. If that's not a hack-a-round, I don't know what is.

Is it just me or does it seem like SE is the only one mmorpg company having so regularly emergency patches?

I know from other MMORPGs there is always something wrong with a patch. And that I can understand. Goes back to what you allready explained. But it never seemes to be so bad to varant an emergency patch.

And I also have basic programming skills. So I know how a something little like a wrong space or a missing "!" or what ever can totaly screw you up.

Telling a customer to

deal with it.

is not the way to have a customer relationship... what every the cause.

[Mushy]

SE's coders should be perfect. They should never make any mistakes. They should test every one of their tens of millions of lines of code every time they add content, testing each line for every single foreseeable and unforeseeable circumstance. They shouldn't even need to compile before they ship the patch.


Or you know, OP could learn about software development.

seriously... its like they would rather have things remain broken. They are making the right choice by fixing things people.. you would complain if things stay broken asking where your subscription money is going, you complain if they fix something that obviously requires immediate attention. in these forums i learned people just complain

[Rizon]

SE's coders should be perfect. They should never make any mistakes. They should test every one of their tens of millions of lines of code every time they add content, testing each line for every single foreseeable and unforeseeable circumstance. They shouldn't even need to compile before they ship the patch.


Or you know, OP could learn about software development.

I may not know much about software developement but I do know that 10 hours of Maintenance downtime + another 3-4 hours of missed time due to server locks within the forst 36 hours of release is a bit too much and players do have a right to complain about it.

[Deatheye]

SE's coders should be perfect. They should never make any mistakes. They should test every one of their tens of millions of lines of code every time they add content, testing each line for every single foreseeable and unforeseeable circumstance. They shouldn't even need to compile before they ship the patch.


Or you know, OP could learn about software development.

I actually work in IT. Not in aplication development. But as another person allready wrote on the forum, if they would put a software update live and that would cause such problems every time with that much downtime they would loose theyr job pretty fast. Sometimes I need to update systems too and I know if I would handle this like SE does I would loose my job too.

On critical system we load a backup of the running software nad implement the patch there. Then somone working daily with the software has to do basic jobs and check if they work fine. There are also programs out there that simulate load. Or sometimes we even made them ourself to test the behaviour of the new system with heavy loads on it.

There is seriously something wrong with the way SE handles this...

Imaging you working in a bank and putting the hole money transfer offline every two months, and customers loosing all therey money... You would tell them the same too?

Reading your comment I have to wonder if you actually now anything about software development and releases.

most developers are not releasing content patches of this size, built on a horrible foundation and crappy netcode. those other developers would of have 1.21 and combined 1.22 on sale for $30 called an expansion.

also remember their team is writing things for TWO clients, the current, and 2.0. testing goes into both. Majority of this content is going to be in 2.0 - and I imagine the difference in making these things work in both is quite different. oh and dont forget about the ps3 port which they are also still working on.

I can understand that this makes it more of a problem. I actually got in touch wich such patchwork too, and I know it's awfull. But that's SEs problem, not the customers.
I can't just tell my customers I screwed up in the past thats why everything is fucked up now, get over it and give me your money.

[Answa]

blahblah This happens EVERY patch. blahblah

No it fucking doesn't. It's only happened since 1.21, for whatever reason, and became more of a problem after server merge.

I can understand that this makes it more of a problem. I actually got in touch wich such patchwork too, and I know it's awfull. But that's SEs problem, not the customers.
I can't just tell my customers I screwed up in the past thats why everything is fucked up now, get over it and give me your money.

You have the very, extremely simple option of not paying.

[Mushy]

No it fucking doesn't. It's only happened since 1.21, for whatever reason, and became more of a problem after server merge.



You have the very, extremely simple option of not paying.

correct. they said this was a beta essentially if you want to pay for it go ahead, and told the others to come back 2.0 where they will be given free time

[Timo]

You have the very, extremely simple option of not paying +1

[Deatheye]

You have the very, extremely simple option of not paying +1

Sadly I do not, since I selected a payment for severell months. So for those months I'm allready screwed up. But for sure I'l remember that till a few days before the next payment is due.

My point btw to maybe make it more clear:
With such stuff SE damages theyr reputation even more. If you don't care SE loosing even more customers and loosing more possible future customers that's your desicion. I actually care.

What also worryies me:

I was there in Beta and read the alpha player complaing about what all was wrong in alpha and what of that is still wrong in beta. I was part of those people telling SE that they should fix a lot before release or they will pay for it. I was there like propably a lot of you shortly after releas when a lot of people where hoping for a miracle fix patch.
Now it is the miracle 2.0 release.
You know the story about the boy that alwys lied about the wolf attacking, till the day where te wolf actually attacked and noone beliefed him?
I'm at that point. I don't beliefe it till it happens. And I really hope I'll get a big surprise with 2.0. But after so many dissapointments I try to hold the ball low.
Granted there are big improvments, but there are still basics missing so long after release and patchworking everywhere.

[Eldarion18]

You have the very, extremely simple option of not paying.

If SE acted as smug as you do this game would simply vanish into thin air. That or get handed over to another game developer like they did with Fantasy Earth Zero. The simple fact of the matter is SE is desperate to have whatever subscribers they have left keep on paying to fuel back development costs before their higher ups go "That's it we've lost enough money, hand it over to another company".

So before you suggest some other non-productive idiotic idea of simply cancelling subscriptions, which believe me nobody here is above doing, think of what consequences this game would suffer if everybody who cared to took your advice and took the very, extremely simple option of not paying.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy_earth_zero