DPS jobs lacking utility?

[Fellgon]

They used to give Stun, Slow, Heavy, Bind, Silence, and Pacify effects across various DPS (and tanks and healers, ofc), but the devs couldn't figure out how to situate them and/or certain player groups couldn't figure out how to use them, so they were trimmed.

The reasons given were primarily along the lines of "No one was using them, so we got rid of them to make room for... .

Im sure that square knows wich skill players make less use, and change game based in those istatistics.

[Shurrikhan]

Im sure that square knows wich skill players make less use, and change game based in those istatistics.

Doesn't make it any less bull. If you situate something poorly (such that your implementation is scarcely worth using) and then use players' lack of interest in that implementation as indication that they have no interest in the concept, that's negligent at best. More likely: disingenuous.

"Would you like to buy this mount for 300 primal totems?"
"No?"
"Well I guess no one wants the ability to buy mounts with totems. Let's get rid of that."

[Lucyfurr1988]

Doesn't make it any less bull. If you situate something poorly (such that your implementation is scarcely worth using) and then use players' lack of interest in that implementation as indication that they have no interest in the concept, that's negligent at best. More likely: disingenuous.

"Would you like to buy this mount for 300 primal totems?"
"No?"
"Well I guess no one wants the ability to buy mounts with totems. Let's get rid of that."

think sleeve draw - used to pull 3 cards but loads of players moaned that they were finding it stressful to do so, couldnt always get a 3 card divination and mp was too hard to maintain. sleeve draw gets a massive nerf and they attach mp regeneration to it.

the problem isnt negligence at all the problem is they pay too much attention to the people unwilling to learn to play their jobs right

[Shurrikhan]

think sleeve draw - used to pull 3 cards but loads of players moaned that they were finding it stressful to do so, couldnt always get a 3 card divination and mp was too hard to maintain. sleeve draw gets a massive nerf and they attach mp regeneration to it.

the problem isnt negligence at all the problem is they pay too much attention to the people unwilling to learn to play their jobs right

And that's not neglecting a majority in favor of a more vocal minority, whilst being disingenuous as to whether the given concept was workable or desirable?

I jest. But I feel this has applied to more than just job changes alone. Whole paths of content as they could have been or how the parameters on content have formed speak to similar problems.

[Ralph2449]

I would say it's because it's not needed. Sure the devs could design fights around stuff like that but things like that just tend to be mostly annoying upon repeated runs of something. Which MMOs rely on their players having to run the same stuff repeatedly. In Coil 5 there was a add spawn that would knock DPS into the wall. You had to stun or heavy it and focus it down which just prolongs the fight cause the DPS aren't focusing the main boss and instead having to deal with an add.

I am not sure how that makes sense, mechanics are created to be annoying and an obstacle, if you remove anykind of mechanic because it is "annoying" you might as well demand you stand still and dps and never have to move cuz doing mechanics or moving and losing uptime is "annoying" O_o

Im sure that square knows wich skill players make less use, and change game based in those istatistics.

I mean you could make the same argument for WoW, if half the dps players never use their dispel abilities even though it can benefit them then should they remove an entire mechanic from the game because of that?

[Lucyfurr1988]

I mean you could make the same argument for WoW, if half the dps players never use their dispel abilities even though it can benefit them then should they remove an entire mechanic from the game because of that?

i mean wow devs dont listen to its player base at all. i get what your saying but this game doesnt play like that. all jobs have some utility some jobs have more than others. there is no META here cause all jobs are viable. if a job does less dps then it buffs the rest of the party to do more dps. the game is designed around all jobs being uselful in their own right.

things like haste are not needed in the way our raids are made. its good comparing the 2 mmos but you also have to remember that they are different games and the way that utility is in this game works for this game

[Payadopa]

They used to give Stun, Slow, Heavy, Bind, Silence, and Pacify effects across various DPS (and tanks and healers, ofc), but the devs couldn't figure out how to situate them and/or certain player groups couldn't figure out how to use them, so they were trimmed.

The reasons given were primarily along the lines of "No one was using them, so we got rid of them to make room for... (longer linear combos, skills that are only pressable after having used a prior skill, buff buttons that probably should have been traits if not for the fact that traits just don't have the flair on job previews that new abilities do, etc.)."

Sadly the resultant homogeneity has in no way reduced class imbalance, even as it has caused many a player to enjoy their chosen job less and has generally simplified gameplay increasingly towards a lowest common denominator of available design possibilities (see XIV dungeons and their relative homogeneity, since all skills are designed towards such an experience with anything outside it quickly trimmed while dungeons in turn cannot design beyond the tools provided).

I really dislike the boring job design we have right now. Barely do DF as a result. No threats, just tank and spank and running through. I wish we would at least(!) get diversity back in the over world (like in Bozja) but on a larger scale. Though, I find it comical that in Bozja I have to drink a potion for, say, evasion up on NIN to feel any form of job diversity outside of different DPS animations.

[Katie_Kitty]

We used to have more non-DPS tools but then yoshi-p decided he wanted to gut party synergy abilities and so they began making it so that nobody has to work together at all.

[Burningskull]

I havent played all dps jobs yet, only Sam, Ninja, Black mage, red mage but I am feeling DPS jobs dont get much utility or non dps related cds in general to the point it feels like you are only pressing dps buttons and rarely ever anything else.

Coming from WoW where for example the hunter has aoe root, threat redirection, 6s immunity, 20% DR for 6s, personal heal cd, single target slow, aoe trap slow, single target 60s cc, speed boost cd, dispell and stealth detect flare.

Why have the devs felt the need to not give much utility to dps jobs? Have they given a reason for that design choice?
Yes all those are absolutely situational but they can be extremely useful at the right time and it is nice if you dont have to depend on others so much to survive at times which is something all that utility helps with as well.

I would say it's because it's not needed. Sure the devs could design fights around stuff like that but things like that just tend to be mostly annoying upon repeated runs of something. Which MMOs rely on their players having to run the same stuff repeatedly. In Coil 5 there was a add spawn that would knock DPS into the wall. You had to stun or heavy it and focus it down which just prolongs the fight cause the DPS aren't focusing the main boss and instead having to deal with an add.

[Payadopa]

I would say it's because it's not needed. Sure the devs could design fights around stuff like that but things like that just tend to be mostly annoying upon repeated runs of something. Which MMOs rely on their players having to run the same stuff repeatedly. In Coil 5 there was a add spawn that would knock DPS into the wall. You had to stun or heavy it and focus it down which just prolongs the fight cause the DPS aren't focusing the main boss and instead having to deal with an add.

Typical MMO argument. Run something 1.000.000 times and then complain it's boring so it gets streamlined so the next 1.000.000 runs are faster. Logic.