Implications of Social-Construct terms of "Humanity" and "Beast"

[Moogly900]

Without getting too into it, you're essentially correct. Beast Tribe is just a social construct to describe a species of Spoken creature that hasn't fully integrated into the society that other races have established. Later story content will address this and the implications of what it means down the line.

Is it? How come this topic is so very controversial is beyond me. At least the Elder Scrolls franchise are clear on human race like Nords and etc, and other races that are not Humans like Elves, Khajits and etc. Honestly, it's pretty dumb if one sees a Lalafell the same race or species as a Hyur or something..like they're both biologically Humans. According to Jondar and others, these terms are indeed biological which separate two groups of sentient species that are very close to one another; humanity or humans and non-Human ones.

I guess the Dwarves in the First are indeed biologically not Humans while in the source aka the Lalafells are.

[Moogly900]

Are you not familiar with the concept of just having a polite discussion for the sake of it? You created a thread called "Implications of social-construct terms of Humanity and Beast" and yet when I try to talk about the implications of term, to move beyond what is explicitly stated and theorize on the how and why of the terms spread, you accuse me of spreading misinformation and gaslighting.

If there are no differences between man and beastman, then what exactly do you think caused it to spread the way it did and be applied to the races it was? The term was created by one city state, and yet is now used by virtually all Eorzeans and applied pretty universally to all native non-human sentients.

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Also, regarding the human races, yes they are somewhat similar to the real world human race. The player races of Eorzea are confirmed as being able to crossbreed. https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/32685-Questions-related-to-Lore?p=490835&viewfull=1#post490835

Okay. I guess that the playable races of FFXIV like the Roes, Lalafells and etc are similar to the ESO human races like Nords, Redguards and etc, right? As in, these races belong to the same species which is Humans similar to our species with different races and ethnicities, right? So, we can say with confidence that the Beastmen races are indeed a biological grouping which is true for Humans.

Wonder why the Lalafells in the First are considered as Beasts though? Hmm. Weird.

[Elissar]

Honestly this is just western delirium.

[Moogly900]

Honestly this is just western delirium.

It's giving me headache.

[Moogly900]

The two terms aren't mutually exclusive, though. The term "beastmen" can be acknowledged as racist in and of itself, while also acknowledging that there are some inherent biological differences. Even Goldstarz addition of "the bold part is the point" makes that very clear - there are biological differences, but not enough to categorize them as an other. Both Jandor and Goldstarz are correct - there was a miscommunication at the beginning but they're both coming to the same conclusion, just worded differently. That conclusion being:

There are inherent biological differences between the Human and Beast races - however, not enough to justify the racist othering.

Okay. The races we play as are biologically Humans similar to the Human races in Elder scrolls while the unplayable ones are Beasts. Got it.

[Jandor]

There is no hard clear dividing line. It's like pink and red, most people would agree they're two different colours, but most people would also disagree about where exactly one becomes the other.

If you compare Hyur to Sylph then it's obvious they're different, if you compare Hrothgar with Lupin then the divide becomes a lot fuzzier. (get it, fuzzier )

There will likely never be any serious clarification because the term was created with negative intentions, it works less and less well as a category as more species that don't fit it quite so neatly become known to the Eorzeans, and the people of Eorzea, man and beast both, are trying to move past the term anyway.

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I don't think the people of the First use the term beast tribe, when the lalafell of the First are referred to that way I believe it's mostly a gameplay thing as their quest chains function in an identical manner to the other beast tribe quest chains.

[MilkieTea]

Okay. The races we play as are biologically Humans similar to the Human races in Elder scrolls while the unplayable ones are Beasts. Got it.

Getting there, but it isn’t so black and white. To make a lighthearted attempt at an analogy- it’s like the difference between birds that fly and birds that don’t. Let’s say they have their own societies and terms and whatnot (like Animal Farm). The birds that fly call the birds that don’t fly “Landbirds” I guess. For some reason they keep the landbirds outside of their cities, hunt them down and kill them etc etc etc.

There’s still a biological difference between the birds that fly and birds that don’t fly - but not enough for them to other each other. The difference is still there - penguins can’t mate with finches, for example. But there’s not enough of a difference for them to hunt down the landbirds, theres not enough of a difference for them to ostracize them etc etc.

The ostracism, the othering, that is what is racially charged. The term? could be replaced with any other term and it would mean the same thing - but it’s the connotation behind it that makes it racially charged.

[Vyrerus]

Thinking about all these biological differences is making me miss the, "Do Au Ra lay eggs?" kinds of threads lol

The term beastmen wasn't even made with the idea that there would be races beyond the big, original five. Tarutaru, Galka, Mithra, Hume, and Elvaan. Or as they're known in XIV, Lalafells, Roegadyns, Miqotes, Hyurs, and Elezens.

We're basically at a point now where they've introduced other races with features once only given to beastmen, but since that isn't the focus of the main story, it only gets brought up to speed ever so slightly and slowly. The juxtaposition between "human" races and beastmen has been present in their MMOs since 2002. They have always been sentient, and whether or not they were the aggressors or oppressors varied race to race.

The real big stand out for beastmen is that each race has their own method of reproduction, and then their own, isolated societies that are tribal or far removed from other societies. Goblins are always an exception, and there are more exceptions in FFXIV.

But I mean, look at Sahagin. They breed like fish and are matriarchal. Their kind of society literally cannot integrate beyond social interactions with Spoken races. You fall in love with a Sahagin, you don't get a kid out of the deal, at least by blood relation.

Sylphs grow in seed bulbs. Fall in love with a Sylph, and I guess you're always choosing soup at restaurants from now on.

Ananta are all female, and they also hatch from eggs.

Ixal, eggs again.

Now, some of the beastmen are mammalian in appearance or seem to revolve around livebirth instead of eggs, but the big takeaway here is that every Spoken race can get it on like donkey kong and produce a donkey kong jr. that's halfsies on the race.

As far as we've been shown, Spoken do fall in love with beastmen sometimes... lookin' at that one Company of Heroes dude that has eyes for Brayflox... but we've never been shown a proper couple to my knowledge, nor any sort of half beastman, half spoken sort of person.

[Lubu_Mykono]

"Keep these savages in their dilapidated shacks and put up walls around them.
Make them pay for it with their beast tribe currency.
We need to make Eorzea great again,"

Garlemald, I guess.

[SannaR]

I'm guessing that for Hrothgar at least as to why is due to the fact they like the Anata have been a race and nation that has been around for at least five thousand years. As we know one tribe successfully made the Allagans withdraw. The Au Ra are a little more tricky as I don't think we've been given a date as to when the Raen who moved to Hingashi started to become interwoven into the ruling class as they quickly proved themselves to be not only useful but better than most in the reason why they got accepted that currently I can't remember. The Lupin as far as I can remember have always been in a service role either via guards or labor that takes advantage of their natural skills and height.