Shell FCs are a bigger problem than we think...

[Awha]

That sounds good on paper, but in practice most members in FCs don't have access to decorations (much less gardening or the workshop) so to get them involved in housing they really need their own house. It really boils down to having your play experience gated by someone else, or being able to do whatever you want to with the property without having to get someone else's approval.

So it is not so much about maximizing use per plot but to maximize the personal experience? if that is the case then is their anything really wrong with shell FC's? They both are just trying to maximize their own personal experience.

[Almagnus1]

So it is not so much about maximizing use per plot but to maximize the personal experience? if that is the case then is their anything really wrong with shell FC's? They both are just trying to maximize their own personal experience.

The short of it is that the shell FC goes against SE's intent, and it's also making a bad situation worse. Additionally, shell FCs are a known vehicle for unsanctioned housing RMT - and unsanctioned RMT is generally bad for the health and stability of an MMO and invite some of the bot and inflation problems like what was observed in Classic WoW recently. Unsanctioned RMT also invites in a ton of GM related issues with account theft and other shenanigans.

With resources as scarce as they are and as many new players as we have seen (region breakdown on total characters rolled is NA 2,378,009; JP 1,395,530; EU 1,112,159 - Yoshi-P also cited this in https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...0acb6c23ccd07f ), so while it may not exist now (as many of the WoW refugee sprouts are able to purchase houses yet), this is going to be a problem in the future as many are likely to stick around for a long time. Lookig at the restrictions at https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../housing_land/ , SE seems to indicate that each service account should have a single personal house, specifically:

Each service account may only possess one free company estate hall and one private estate per World.

The problem here, however, is that the FC system is so loose that it's trivial to bypass that even with the restriction in place. The real impact of all of this is around 10,042 to 27,768 properties can be considered shell FCs (depending on the criteria for a shell FC - data from https://www.xivhousing.com/ ), which means that it's displacing that many home owners from joining the system and also denying properties to the legitimate FC owners. That's between 7-22% of all the FC properties worldwide being shell FC properties.

The other issue here, if that number does not have a high degree of certainty that it is only comprised of shell FCs, it's going to do a lot of collateral damage if SE were to, say, demolish all the homes identified as shell FCs.

[Awha]

The short of it is that the shell FC goes against SE's intent, and it's also making a bad situation worse. Additionally, shell FCs are a known vehicle for unsanctioned housing RMT - and unsanctioned RMT is generally bad for the health and stability of an MMO and invite some of the bot and inflation problems like what was observed in Classic WoW recently. Unsanctioned RMT also invites in a ton of GM related issues with account theft and other shenanigans.

With resources as scarce as they are and as many new players as we have seen (region breakdown on total characters rolled is NA 2,378,009; JP 1,395,530; EU 1,112,159 - Yoshi-P also cited this in https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...0acb6c23ccd07f ), so while it may not exist now (as many of the WoW refugee sprouts are able to purchase houses yet), this is going to be a problem in the future as many are likely to stick around for a long time. Lookig at the restrictions at https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../housing_land/ , SE seems to indicate that each service account should have a single personal house, specifically:



The problem here, however, is that the FC system is so loose that it's trivial to bypass that even with the restriction in place. The real impact of all of this is around 10,042 to 27,768 properties can be considered shell FCs (depending on the criteria for a shell FC - data from https://www.xivhousing.com/ ), which means that it's displacing that many home owners from joining the system and also denying properties to the legitimate FC owners. That's between 7-22% of all the FC properties worldwide being shell FC properties.

The other issue here, if that number does not have a high degree of certainty that it is only comprised of shell FCs, it's going to do a lot of collateral damage if SE were to, say, demolish all the homes identified as shell FCs.

Though outside of just grandstanding, if SE does not enforce this "intent" then what exactly are you trying accomplish?

Though many of your premises seem to operate on what if scenarios, and at the core just seem like you are upset people are maximizing their own personal enjoyment at the expense of others personal enjoyment. No one will win in that case.

[Almagnus1]

Though outside of just grandstanding, if SE does not enforce this "intent" then what exactly are you trying accomplish?

Figure out how to accurately identify an issue and also highlight the edge cases.

Though many of your premises seem to operate on what if scenarios, and at the core just seem like you are upset people are maximizing their own personal enjoyment at the expense of others personal enjoyment. No one will win in that case.

While it is a creative manipulation of the FC system, it is also facilitating a whole lot of RMT... to the point that SE even pointed this out in the last live letter (exceprt from https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...90#post5614790 , relevant part bolded):

Players will only be permitted to enter the lottery if they meet the requirements necessary to own housing. A number of features have been prepared to prevent RMT and troublemaking, such as depositing the gil upfront and disallowing participation on Free Trial accounts. Furthermore, there will be a gil penalty for those who do not purchase a plot after being selected in the lottery. Please note that this penalty will be quite strict.

It's an open secret that RMT is involved with the shell FC problem, as many FCs have been traded as part of RMT. For me, at least, I don't want to see all the RMT issues I have seen in other MMOs in FFXIV. Our biggest saving grace is that we have GMs ingame that actually do their job.

[Awha]

Thing is we know the issue SE not enforcing their own desired standards due to limitations they place on only using ingame evidence.

Same issue with RMT everything boils down to SE not enforcing their intent due to their standard to require in game evidence.

So why is your crusade against the players when by in large your issue seems to be with SE. Even though at the core I still do believe your core issue is a simple issue of you having a problem with how people are enjoying the game, and are trying to use "data" to support your emotional contrived narrative. Though that is speculation on my part.

[Big_Bap]

When your suggestion is so bad that you have to pull the RMT boogeyman. How sad. Anyone wanna talk about minions/mounts/hairstyles selling for more than houses on the MB and how they aren't saying anything about that?

Hey, sit back and enjoy the irony below

Nothing new there... the weak will always blame someone else rather than be introspective.

I also never make mistakes, just happy accidents =D

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we also shouldn't play the victim for sympathy when we're in the wrong, and own our mistakes.

You're still blaming the victim....

That's sexual harassment, stop calling me darling. I am not your girlfriend.

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you may want to be careful on that or the resident elitist is going to call you a noob for it.

Stop posting your garbage all over this forum.

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Do you have actual data to back that up that claim?

Do you have data to back up this point?

Until we have the SE stats (and not some third party site that may have doctored stats), we don't know [...] what percentage of the FCs are FCs with less than four members

After lookign through the data at https://www.xivhousing.com/

I have a strong feeling that if stats of that nature were published we'd probably be shocked at the amount of FC houses that fall into the two buckets I listed

Shell FCs are a bigger problem than we [I] think...

FC houses with less than 4 members
NA: 6,053 (4.4% of all houses on that region)
EU: 3,519 (5% of all houses on that region)
JP: 14,154 (7.7% of all houses in that region)

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Quit dodging the question.

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You think this issue is not going to be seriously addressed until it's a problem in JP?

Exactly, if we're not from Japan, we need to be accepting of FFXIV for what it is, and not try to colonize the dev team to make it what we want it to be by forcing our culture upon them.

shell FCs need to be dealt with because they are exacerbating the housing problem. Of all the servers, Chocobo is the poster child for this problem with 891 of the 2613 FC houses belonging to a shell FC

If/when the devs take interest in such a drastic remedy [Deleting small Free Companies], you can be assured that JP forum will come alive with protest.

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The problem with throwing more hurdles in front of people is your going to always have someone that figures out how to shortcut it, while the hurdles only frustrate the legitimate users.

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Posted on 07-28-2021
Methinks the takeaway here is that some language translators aren't as good as others, and if it's this bad rendering into English... I'd rather not post in another language on a different part of the forum.

Posted on 10-13-2020
スクウェア・エニックスは、新しいワードを追加する以外に、これについて何かをする必要があります。 議論の余地があるかもしれませんが、開発者は、市場での供給不足のために不満を引き起こしているシステムを見ているので、いくつかのパッチで祖父のポリシーに終止符を打つことに注意する必要があると思います。 https://jp.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...ることは本当に良い動きです。 日本のサーバーの中で物事がどのように行われているかについて話すことができませんが、私たちがそうするので、システムを乱用する能力を本当に与えたくないアメリカ人には分かっています。

PS:文法が悪いお詫び申し上げますが、日本語が話せないからtranslate.bing.com使っています。

For the record, their post in Japanese about housing restrictions was ignored for the following 12 pages until the thread died. Not a single thumbs up. I can't wait for them to actually make a thread over there and suggest how SE should delete their "shell FC houses", but I know they are too scared of being humiliated on that board as well. I guess they could flee to the German or French forums...

[Nepentha]

Eh no. Sometimes it's darkest before the dawn...

Finally an admission that your grand placard clicking idea was not at all a grand idea.

[Almagnus1]

Ah, so that's your response....

When your suggestion is so bad that you have to pull the RMT boogeyman. How sad. Anyone wanna talk about minions/mounts/hairstyles selling for more than houses on the MB and how they aren't saying anything about that?

Hey, sit back and enjoy the irony below




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For the record, their post in Japanese about housing restrictions was ignored for the following 12 pages until the thread died. Not a single thumbs up. I can't wait for them to actually make a thread over there and suggest how SE should delete their "shell FC houses", but I know they are too scared of being humiliated on that board as well. I guess they could flee to the German or French forums...

I'm not surprised this is how you respond after making an embarassement of yourself in the Japanese forums on the thread you created (https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...B3%AA%E5%95%8F ).

You completely failed to take into consideration the Japanese phrase "The nail that stands out gets hammered down", and also failed to take into consideration that the Japanese are obviously smarter than you so they would see through the stunt you tried to pull there. I mean, what you did was so highly offensive that one of the posters went so far as to delete their post from the thread, with the deleted post between posts 21 and 22 leaving the message:

スレッド自体が荒らし目的だったようなので削除します。

As you have not refuted my post, I must assume that you agree with everything that was stated. For those wondering, here is that post:

私は私の北米のカウンターパートの一人のために謝罪する必要がありますが、彼らは北米のフォーラムで彼らの弱い議論をバックアップするためにあなたを操作する意図を持って日本のコミュニティに苦痛を作成するために、このスレッドを作成しました。 私は彼らの不正行為に非常に恥ずかしく、彼らが自分の個人的なニーズのために日本のコミュニティを荒らす必要性を感じていることを残念に思います。

Original English:
I must apologize for one of my North American counterparts, but they created this thread to create distress in the Japanese community with the intent to manipulate you into backing up their weak argument in the North American forum. I am greatly embarrassed by their misbehavior here, and regret they feel the need to troll the Japanese community for their own personal needs.

Just do us all a favor and stop this pointless crusade.

[Almagnus1]

Finally an admission that your grand placard clicking idea was not at all a grand idea.

Two thoughts:
1) If you had spent your time thinking and posting ideas instead of attacking me, we'd already be in a housing golden age and many of these issues solved.

2) It's been a rough week at work, so can I have whatever you're smoking? It'd help me relax =)

[Nepentha]

Two thoughts:
1) If you had spent your time thinking and posting ideas instead of attacking me, we'd already be in a housing golden age and many of these issues solved.

2) It's been a rough week at work, so can I have whatever you're smoking? It'd help me relax =)

1. When you stop putting up inane ideas, I will stop responding to say how inane they are.

2. I'm afraid you need more medications than that to bring you back to reality.