Shell FCs are a bigger problem than we think...

[Big_Bap]

And all of this is completely irrelevant to shell FCs. If you're going to cite population, at least use https://ffxivcensus.com/

Congrats on your failed attempt at diverting. The point is that FC housing can accommodate way more people than personal housing. Hence why personal housing is much more problematic, granted it takes up the majority of the plots for a lot less players.

Then again, this is coming from the same person that wrote a guide on how to get a shell FC to the point that it can buy a house ( https://www.xivhousing.com/free-company-leveling ) which is making this entire situation worse. So it's no surprise you're going to overzealously defend shell FCs.

Setting the record straight darling. You think a couple of thousand house owners are a problem but ironically, personal housing has no issues. What a joke you are.

Again, irrelevant to the discussion of shell FCs as I already pointed out 80% of the FC housing have at least 4+ members.

Irrelevant for someone who's dead focused on being deceitful. Let me remind you that you are the one who chose to use the word "we" when JP players don't come around here. Btw, you have yet to address that. Who do you speak for? Who's "we".

Yes, I'm aware of this as I had previously said:

I don't think you are aware of anything really. Again, you are being deceitful by combining everything together. Don't be surprised that you're getting called out on it.

Problem isn't on when they were added, it's that they exist to begin with.

When the purchase happenned is irrelevant when the problem is they exist to begin with.

Not only is that your opinion, but SE has stated that temporary restrictions were not retroactive. You are a literal who, take a seat.

And look! You're even going so far as to leverage the fact that FCs take up about a third of all the FFXIV housing to make the problem appear as if it's nonexistant!

Yes, FC housing is a minority and here you are crying about the minority of a minority. You understand that right (wishful thinking).

As stated previously, personal housing is completely irrelevant to the shell FC issue. Shell FC housing is done explicitly to bypass the personal housing requirements and let one person acquire more houses than what SE intendes.

1: It's not irrelevant when personal housing brings in way more issues.
2: The temporary restriction on FC housing doesn't even work, but you don't know that because you have no experience with FC housing.
3: That's a big assumption for someone so inexperienced on the subject.
4: Funny how you bring in SE's intent when you've previously stated that you believe any FC with less than 4 members shouldn't exist (something they obviously disagree with). The game allows you to own as many FC houses until you cap an account. Don't even need a "loophole", but as I said before, you are unaware.

Going by https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../housing_land/ the requirement to buy an FC house is four characters. It seems reasonable that the FC should stay at alest four members (which roughly 80% of the FCs do worldwide) to retain their house. There definitely needs to be a discussion around removing the FCs that fall below four (and where that threshold should be) because the data from SE with respect to the FCs isn't the cleanest (especially since there's 0 member FCs in that data).

1: As said previously, the temporary restriction on FC housing doesn't even work.
2: Reasonable to you only. You sound like Napoleon.
3: FCs with 0 members exist because of character recovery. Thanks for displaying your ignorance.

And here we go with using all the houses instead of specifically talking about the FC housing just to water down the stats.

Apple to apple
House for house

You're the one being deceiving by choosing what you want to talk about or even what others talk about.

Here's what those stats are if you only look at the FC housing:

NA: 7.94%
EU: 4.66%
JP 13.30%

EU's low percentage is due to EU having generally less FC housing overall than the other two regions.

Yes, you are crying yet again about the minority of a minority. Congrats.

As stated previously when the purchase occurred doesn't matter, the problem is that they exist because the shell FCs are making this entire housing situation worse.

It doesn't matter to you because it makes you look bad. Not that it's a difficult thing to do.

Yes, because writing a more indepth response is more important than getting to the gym so I stay sexy! =D

In-depth? You are one most uninformed people I've come across on this forum. Try reading books or something... at least that will get you somewhere.

From having worked with PowerBI, I know that whatever you set the query the database uses to pull the data will define the dataset displayed, and as you have shown a pattern of using the data to represent the issue as not as significant as it is, I fully expect all views coming from you to be tailored to best fit your narrative regardless of what the data actually says. As your site hosts a guide on how to cheese the FC system to quickly spin up a shell FC (and yes, that's what your guide facilitates whethere you want to acknowledge it or not), I fully expect you to defend this flaw in the housing system and provide manicured data slices instead of the actual DB of data.

It's not as significant as you claim it is, because well... it isn't darling. The very reason why this website exists is because of people like you who have no knowledge. If you believe I'm tampering with the data, go ahead, prove it.

You need to stop crying about 3% of the house owners when personal housing brings in a lot more issues. Issues you refuse to discuss by the way. Knowing your history on here, this is just another hill for you to die on.

Help does exist if the only thing you enjoy doing is ridicule yourself and play the victim card on a video game forum.

[Jojoya]

The point is that FC housing can accommodate way more people than personal housing. Hence why personal housing is much more problematic, granted it takes up the majority of the plots for a lot less players.

Trying to stay out of most of this argument but I do want to touch on this point.

Why do most players want a personal house? They want a chance to decorate a house to their liking along with access to gardening.

What do most FCs not grant the majority of their members? A chance to decorate and garden at the FC house. The house tends to end up the plaything of the leader and sometimes the officers. That's also tends to be true of the workshop airships and submersibles. Some don't even give members access to the Fabrication Station when there are no downsides to allowing it unless the officers like leaving projects sitting on the station half finished.

There's little point in saying that FC houses accommodate more players if most FC members aren't getting what they want from housing out of it.

[Nepentha]

Trying to stay out of most of this argument but I do want to touch on this point.

Why do most players want a personal house? They want a chance to decorate a house to their liking along with access to gardening.

What do most FCs not grant the majority of their members? A chance to decorate and garden at the FC house. The house tends to end up the plaything of the leader and sometimes the officers. That's also tends to be true of the workshop airships and submersibles. Some don't even give members access to the Fabrication Station when there are no downsides to allowing it unless the officers like leaving projects sitting on the station half finished.

There's little point in saying that FC houses accommodate more players if most FC members aren't getting what they want from housing out of it.

I get what you're saying but I think he's just trying to drive home a point, that's all. Worrying over FCs with less than 4 members having housing, over personal houses who can only ever have a set number of people using them at max.

[Big_Bap]

Why do most players want a personal house? They want a chance to decorate a house to their liking along with access to gardening.

Sure, but thats a bit narrow-minded. People want things they don't even need, hence why so many personal houses are barren.

I would add that there's hardly anything to spend gil on and that some people end up buying a house as a status symbol.

What do most FCs not grant the majority of their members? A chance to decorate and garden at the FC house. The house tends to end up the plaything of the leader and sometimes the officers.

That's also tends to be true of the workshop airships and submersibles. Some don't even give members access to the Fabrication Station when there are no downsides to allowing it unless the officers like leaving projects sitting on the station half finished.

There's little point in saying that FC houses accommodate more players if most FC members aren't getting what they want from housing out of it.

I briefly touched on the subject.

Ask yourself why the average FC with a house on the NA servers has twice as many members as on the JP servers. Is it "cultural differences" or is it because conditions are more than favorable for an environment where FC housing ressources have better chances of being redistributed or accessible down the chain.

Another important question is why do players, who are unsatisfied by the FC permissions they are granted, are not leaving their FC to make their own? Workshops are a big commitment and just like Fc chest permissions or good old Fc permissions, its better to be safe than sorry. Given that SE won't do anything if a FC members decides to cause trouble, I don't think it's unreasonable for FC leaders/officers to limit access to those facilities.

Finally, your same point about permissions can be applied to personal housing. How many have tenants to begin with? How many let their tenants do whatever with a house that isn't theirs?

As demonstrated, even in a fairy tale scenario where all the existing personal houses have 3 tenants, it's impossible for personal housing to grant the housing experience (limited or not) to as many players as FC housing.


EDIT: It's also worth noting that everything you've said is only available for FC houses. Personal housing is awfully inferior and further locks players out of content that is only available in FC housing.

[Sotaris]

Why should the initial requirement and the maintenance requirement of member numbers be the same. Seems pointless to only buy a plot with a FC with 4 members if dropping 1 member means you all lose the house you worked towards. I'm genuinely fascinated you can't figure that out.

Welcome to the club. No one understand why he can't figure these things out related to housing.
We got cookies, help yourself.

[Sotaris]

You need to stop crying about 3% of the house owners when personal housing brings in a lot more issues. Issues you refuse to discuss by the way. Knowing your history on here, this is just another hill for you to die on.

Help does exist if the only thing you enjoy doing is ridicule yourself and play the victim card on a video game forum.

Couldn't agree more. Wish I could like this post more than once.

[Almagnus1]

Skipping out on the (numerous) personal digs...

The point is that FC housing can accommodate way more people than personal housing. Hence why personal housing is much more problematic, granted it takes up the majority of the plots for a lot less players.

As has been pointed by other people, FC housing for the vast majority of players is something that basically isn't an actual housing experience, just a destination that belongs to the FC. While it is true that FC housing is great for the FC leader and officers, generally speaking, everyone else is locked out of all decorating, gardening, and generally do not have the ability to run voyages with the airships or subs.

Your words ring hollow when the cold, hard truth is that personal housing IS the solution to the housing problem, and its going to need time to get the wards (or more realistically another 2-3 additional neighborhoods) before there's enough supply to resolve this. FC housing IS DEFINITELY not the way to fix the housing problem, and all the shell FCs have done is make a bad problem worse.

Setting the record straight darling.

Well bless your heart, but I am not your girlfriend so please do not refer to me as such.

You think a couple of thousand house owners are a problem but ironically, personal housing has no issues.

Stop trying to downplay the issue by making the 10,042 to 27,768 properties (depending on how you define a shell FC) seem like it's only "a couple of thousand".

As a shell FC is a an FC that is created with the sole intention to acquire and hold a house (and typically as a way for a player to acquire and hold multiple properties), and that practice is actually obstructing a player (or a legitimate FC) from getting a house. I mean, reading https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...=68216&id=5382 it looks like the shell FC is actually in violation of:

・Other obstruction of play
This means all other behaviour that deliberately obstructs another person's game play by some means.

Not only is that your opinion

Please point to where in the CoC or TOS it's a violation to hold an opinion.

1: It's not irrelevant when personal housing brings in way more issues.

Ok, start listing issues, and no, the lack of FC rooms or workshop doesn't count. And for the record, I have long advocated that the workshop functionality be moved out of housing so it's more generally available.

2: The temporary restriction on FC housing doesn't even work

And it's really more of a case that SE needs to make a policy decision and not change it because all it's doing is creating more issues than taking a hardline stance and enforing the same set of rules to all housing owners.

The temporary restrictions are a good starting point, but I'm generally in favor of getting rid of that housing restriction (and have been for a while) as IMO it's too opaque. Personally, I see no issue with a player having a personal house and also being part of an FC that has an FC house. The only way to fix this housing issue is to shut down the shell FCs (so the only FC houses out there are the ones that belong to legitimate FCs) and get as many personal houses out there for people to acquire and use.

4: Funny how you bring in SE's intent when you've previously stated that you believe any FC with less than 4 members shouldn't exist (something they obviously disagree with).

I think SE's intent was made pretty clear in another thread. I'm using FC population because that's an easy catch all for the shell FCs, although I would be more in favor of a more accurate way to determine what is (and isn't) a shell FC. The best solution to the shell FC problem is one that deletes the shell FCs without causing collateral damage to the micro FCs.

The game allows you to own as many FC houses until you cap an account.

I'm fully aware of that, and that's why I am fighting to bring as much visibility to the shell FC problem in hopes that SE finally deals with it.

3: FCs with 0 members exist because of character recovery.

Which is all the more reasons why those FCs shouldn't be searchable... and kinda proves the point about the SE data being... weird... which was what I was getting at earlier.

In-depth? You are one most uninformed people I've come across on this forum.

Just because you disagree with me does not make me uninformed (or for that matter, just because you disagree with me doesn't make me a troll).