Shell FCs are a bigger problem than we think...

[Awha]

I have not read the entire thread, just the OP so sorry if this has been brought up.

If small FC's are a problem wouldn't the logical step be to remove personal housing?

[Almagnus1]

I have not read the entire thread, just the OP so sorry if this has been brought up.

If small FC's are a problem wouldn't the logical step be to remove personal housing?

No, FC housing and personal housing are distinct.

Besides when there's only total of 330,325 FCs worldwide (going by https://www.xivhousing.com/ ) and somewhere between 647,345 to 4,885,698 active characters (which is likely exceedingly low because https://ffxivcensus.com/ was operating the assumption that the active players and there's not another public source for active characters), yet 265,668 personal houses to 126,012 FC houses worldwide.

In other words, we shouldn't delete the majority of land holders (the personal houses) just to satisfy the minority.

However, if SE starts segregating wards in the future, the shell FC issue is going to be causing problems for the legitimate FCs:

Additionally, certain areas will be reserved for purchase as personal or free company housing. Details regarding this and other housing-related updates will be shared later.

[Awha]

No, FC housing and personal housing are distinct.

Besides when there's only total of 330,325 FCs worldwide (going by https://www.xivhousing.com/ ) and somewhere between 647,345 to 4,885,698 active characters (which is likely exceedingly low because https://ffxivcensus.com/ was operating the assumption that the active players and there's not another public source for active characters), yet 265,668 personal houses to 126,012 FC houses worldwide.

In other words, we shouldn't delete the majority of land holders (the personal houses) just to satisfy the minority.

However, if SE starts segregating wards in the future, the shell FC issue is going to be causing problems for the legitimate FCs:

That is fair but if housing is a finite supply and we buy into the premise that Shell FC's are a problem shouldn't we try to maximize the use per plot to best of our ability to make the most out of each plot of land.

[Almagnus1]

That is fair but if housing is a finite supply and we buy into the premise that Shell FC's are a problem shouldn't we try to maximize the use per plot to best of our ability to make the most out of each plot of land.

That sounds good on paper, but in practice most members in FCs don't have access to decorations (much less gardening or the workshop) so to get them involved in housing they really need their own house. It really boils down to having your play experience gated by someone else, or being able to do whatever you want to with the property without having to get someone else's approval.

[Awha]

That sounds good on paper, but in practice most members in FCs don't have access to decorations (much less gardening or the workshop) so to get them involved in housing they really need their own house. It really boils down to having your play experience gated by someone else, or being able to do whatever you want to with the property without having to get someone else's approval.

So it is not so much about maximizing use per plot but to maximize the personal experience? if that is the case then is their anything really wrong with shell FC's? They both are just trying to maximize their own personal experience.

[Joven]

That sounds good on paper, but in practice most members in FCs don't have access to decorations (much less gardening or the workshop) so to get them involved in housing they really need their own house. It really boils down to having your play experience gated by someone else, or being able to do whatever you want to with the property without having to get someone else's approval.

Sooooo, start your own FC.

[Almagnus1]

So it is not so much about maximizing use per plot but to maximize the personal experience? if that is the case then is their anything really wrong with shell FC's? They both are just trying to maximize their own personal experience.

The short of it is that the shell FC goes against SE's intent, and it's also making a bad situation worse. Additionally, shell FCs are a known vehicle for unsanctioned housing RMT - and unsanctioned RMT is generally bad for the health and stability of an MMO and invite some of the bot and inflation problems like what was observed in Classic WoW recently. Unsanctioned RMT also invites in a ton of GM related issues with account theft and other shenanigans.

With resources as scarce as they are and as many new players as we have seen (region breakdown on total characters rolled is NA 2,378,009; JP 1,395,530; EU 1,112,159 - Yoshi-P also cited this in https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...0acb6c23ccd07f ), so while it may not exist now (as many of the WoW refugee sprouts are able to purchase houses yet), this is going to be a problem in the future as many are likely to stick around for a long time. Lookig at the restrictions at https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../housing_land/ , SE seems to indicate that each service account should have a single personal house, specifically:

Each service account may only possess one free company estate hall and one private estate per World.

The problem here, however, is that the FC system is so loose that it's trivial to bypass that even with the restriction in place. The real impact of all of this is around 10,042 to 27,768 properties can be considered shell FCs (depending on the criteria for a shell FC - data from https://www.xivhousing.com/ ), which means that it's displacing that many home owners from joining the system and also denying properties to the legitimate FC owners. That's between 7-22% of all the FC properties worldwide being shell FC properties.

The other issue here, if that number does not have a high degree of certainty that it is only comprised of shell FCs, it's going to do a lot of collateral damage if SE were to, say, demolish all the homes identified as shell FCs.

[Awha]

The short of it is that the shell FC goes against SE's intent, and it's also making a bad situation worse. Additionally, shell FCs are a known vehicle for unsanctioned housing RMT - and unsanctioned RMT is generally bad for the health and stability of an MMO and invite some of the bot and inflation problems like what was observed in Classic WoW recently. Unsanctioned RMT also invites in a ton of GM related issues with account theft and other shenanigans.

With resources as scarce as they are and as many new players as we have seen (region breakdown on total characters rolled is NA 2,378,009; JP 1,395,530; EU 1,112,159 - Yoshi-P also cited this in https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...0acb6c23ccd07f ), so while it may not exist now (as many of the WoW refugee sprouts are able to purchase houses yet), this is going to be a problem in the future as many are likely to stick around for a long time. Lookig at the restrictions at https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../housing_land/ , SE seems to indicate that each service account should have a single personal house, specifically:



The problem here, however, is that the FC system is so loose that it's trivial to bypass that even with the restriction in place. The real impact of all of this is around 10,042 to 27,768 properties can be considered shell FCs (depending on the criteria for a shell FC - data from https://www.xivhousing.com/ ), which means that it's displacing that many home owners from joining the system and also denying properties to the legitimate FC owners. That's between 7-22% of all the FC properties worldwide being shell FC properties.

The other issue here, if that number does not have a high degree of certainty that it is only comprised of shell FCs, it's going to do a lot of collateral damage if SE were to, say, demolish all the homes identified as shell FCs.

Though outside of just grandstanding, if SE does not enforce this "intent" then what exactly are you trying accomplish?

Though many of your premises seem to operate on what if scenarios, and at the core just seem like you are upset people are maximizing their own personal enjoyment at the expense of others personal enjoyment. No one will win in that case.

[Almagnus1]

Though outside of just grandstanding, if SE does not enforce this "intent" then what exactly are you trying accomplish?

Figure out how to accurately identify an issue and also highlight the edge cases.

Though many of your premises seem to operate on what if scenarios, and at the core just seem like you are upset people are maximizing their own personal enjoyment at the expense of others personal enjoyment. No one will win in that case.

While it is a creative manipulation of the FC system, it is also facilitating a whole lot of RMT... to the point that SE even pointed this out in the last live letter (exceprt from https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...90#post5614790 , relevant part bolded):

Players will only be permitted to enter the lottery if they meet the requirements necessary to own housing. A number of features have been prepared to prevent RMT and troublemaking, such as depositing the gil upfront and disallowing participation on Free Trial accounts. Furthermore, there will be a gil penalty for those who do not purchase a plot after being selected in the lottery. Please note that this penalty will be quite strict.

It's an open secret that RMT is involved with the shell FC problem, as many FCs have been traded as part of RMT. For me, at least, I don't want to see all the RMT issues I have seen in other MMOs in FFXIV. Our biggest saving grace is that we have GMs ingame that actually do their job.

[Awha]

Thing is we know the issue SE not enforcing their own desired standards due to limitations they place on only using ingame evidence.

Same issue with RMT everything boils down to SE not enforcing their intent due to their standard to require in game evidence.

So why is your crusade against the players when by in large your issue seems to be with SE. Even though at the core I still do believe your core issue is a simple issue of you having a problem with how people are enjoying the game, and are trying to use "data" to support your emotional contrived narrative. Though that is speculation on my part.