Remove Extremes from Mentor Roulette

[ElciaDeiLinus]

I mean, having Extreme in the title should be a pretty good indicator.

Not exactly- you get actual quests to do extremes much like other content, and it's in PF so while you're going to assume it's hard you'll also assume it's doable with a pug.

Especially if you come from other games- WoW for example has normal, heroic, mythic dungeons- but all three of them are cakewalks, M doesn't really have any challenge until you get to a certain +. FFXIV has normal, hard, extreme, savage, ultimate- it's easy to assume ult's gonna be super hard and savage will prob require a premade, but EX being tricky but doable seems reasonable.

I did a Ramuh EX after I'd gotten through ARR and was starting HW, still very new- it was a big challenge, think we got it around the 10 min remaining point. That said- was one of the best prog raiding experiences I've had in years, everyone was trying to learn it, no negativity, 0 people left- so I'm not sure I'm against it staying in DF since that positive experience with Ramuh EX kinda washed away years of miserable LFR and normal raid pugs in WoW.

I've done a few EX/minstrel ballads now in PF, been fun. I think if someone hates pugging hard content, they're going to find a group instead anyway.

[Eien713]

I think people suggested something similar before and I remember some replies said that the chances of people other than the clueless ones queuing for this roulette would be low since this would only bring them pain (unless maybe if the reward was really worth it). Honestly? As someone who suffered through the 2000 Mentor Roulettes, you wouldn't catch me queuing for any of those fights willingly, and I expect many to share this sentiment. The sheer despair when I got tagged in one of those fights was devastating. An hour of your time can easily be wasted for nothing (even when you explain stuff).

I think what the game needs to do is to either remove those fights altogether from the Mentor Roulette without necessarily creating a roulette for them, or it just needs to explain better to the players that extreme fights are no joke. They're such a jump in difficulty compared to the regular faceroll content that a proper warning is necessary. And even with an added warning, I'm almost certain clueless people would still queue for those fights while being blissfully ignorant of the misery and agony that lie ahead. They'd probably think to themselves: Welp, how difficult can it really be?

I'd personally vote for option 1--remove those trials altogether. It's not a mentor's job to write walls of text to explain what a video would do a better job at, and it's certainly not a mentor's job to carry people who don't wanna make an effort.

[Jeeqbit]

In these trials, you get synced to the maximum item level of the expansion and have The Echo build up with each wipe and that makes it a lot easier for new players to beat them in a roulette and allows them to overcome DPS checks that they normally wouldn't because of being unprepared. They are still harder than a normal trial though but these things make a big difference and do allow new players to clear a lot of them.

A big problem is how some Extreme trials are labeled as The Minstrel's Ballad so even if a new player has been told to avoid Extremes until later, they don't recognise The Minstrel's Ballad as an Extreme and queue for it.

[ryouma17]

first thing we need to do is remove any type of rewards from the mentor system then once we have mentors that have the crown to actually help people and not chase rewards/think NN is their own personal chatroom then we can start worrying about what is or isnt showing up in the mentor roulette

most mentors give the game a bad name

[ForctyusGold]

first thing we need to do is remove any type of rewards from the mentor system then once we have mentors that have the crown to actually help people and not chase rewards/think NN is their own personal chatroom then we can start worrying about what is or isnt showing up in the mentor roulette

most mentors give the game a bad name

thats not an issue. mentors can fill some queue where people really waiting for long time and it can help them to clear things other people dont want to do aka some msq dungeons or trials or anything. doing extremes via mentor roulette .i mean . it would be much better to remove extremes from duty roulette and also remove maybe mentor system , but idk. really mentors cant remember all mechanics for every fight just because they have a crown. and what is bad for people trying to get that mount ? i hope you tried mentor roulette to see it. separate roulette would be a thing. you have also separate high-end duty roulette kinda, so it can works. or there could be some button to redirect them to create PF for it.

[LukrShiba]

first thing we need to do is remove any type of rewards from the mentor system then once we have mentors that have the crown to actually help people and not chase rewards/think NN is their own personal chatroom then we can start worrying about what is or isnt showing up in the mentor roulette

most mentors give the game a bad name

Although I agree there are a lot of bad mentors, or people who get really impatient too quickly. Removing rewards won't really help in any way, it'll just have less people in mentor roulette which means less people helping.
I like helping people, and I like mentor roul because it's a quick roul to run, especially on DPS, and I think even without the x Mentor Roul rewards I'd still run it. BUT. I would not do it nearly as much as I do, and that's stopping someone who is rather genuine from helping, and I'm sure 90% of other mentors would be the same.

Genuine question is why do people think removing the mentor rewards will help mentors be less shitty ? It'll just make a big fuss for the people who are close to completing it or just started and really wanted them.

[OranKells]

Unfortunately this is a uniquely western problem so it's not going to be fixed. Japanese players can queue in DF for extremes and will manage to clear.

Really speaks more about the community and cultural expectations about how to play the game than anything else

[GeminiReed]

Unfortunately this is a uniquely western problem so it's not going to be fixed. Japanese players can queue in DF for extremes and will manage to clear.

Really speaks more about the community and cultural expectations about how to play the game than anything else

The JP community is well aware that you don't dare use DF for EX or harder until you know the content cold. I'd be curious to know how they've managed to socialize that to all their new folks.

I never understood people who don't wanna watch guides. If you're not good enough to pick up on mechanics on the fly and learn a fight decently quickly, then you're holding everyone else back. What's the difference between watching a guide that explains things very clearly using footage, and inconveniencing another person by making them type walls of text that don't explain things nearly as well as a video? ...

I can watch videos until I'm blue in the face and it'll be a complete waste of time. I have to at least get through the first few mechanics before I have enough context to make sense of what's going on. Same applies for every arena swap. Even with context I much prefer a written guide since videos are very rigid in how you consume them and reserve videos only when positioning or timing is unclear.

OTOH I'd never queue for synced EX or harder unless I was with people I know and know my abilities/limitations.

[Eien713]

I can watch videos until I'm blue in the face and it'll be a complete waste of time. I have to at least get through the first few mechanics before I have enough context to make sense of what's going on. Same applies for every arena swap. Even with context I much prefer a written guide since videos are very rigid in how you consume them and reserve videos only when positioning or timing is unclear.

Watching a video is the first step. Then you experience the fight for yourself and hopefully things click bit by bit. I wouldn't mind sitting through 1 hour in a trial with someone trying to make sense of a guide they watched/read because at least they made an effort. And another thing is that what people usually explain to you in chat is most likely the exact same info that a video or a written guide (if that's what you prefer) gives. It won't be anything innovative. I may say watch a video most of the time, but what I mean is to know the fight beforehand either by watching a video or reading a guide. Not gonna lie, since videos are the most common ones used, I forget that written guides even exist ^^; Also, I've personally never tanked any of the trials or high-end duties, so even as a mentor, I can't be of much help there. I may know a handful of tank mechanics, and I do know most of the tankbusters since I heal and I play a support class (BRD), but I can safely say I don't know when there are tank swaps. I don't think a mentor is required to know absolutely everything about the game and all its encounters. This is not a job. But if a tank at least watches/reads a guide, they'll come prepared with an info that I can't supply them with and that would spare the party a lot of pain.

I'd never queue for synced EX or harder unless I was with people I know and know my abilities/limitations.

Same here. I don't wanna hold anyone back, and I don't wanna put unnecessary pressure on myself.

[Canadane]

If mentors don't regularly enter extremes, who will be there to tell the novices to try for Party Finder grouping instead?