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  1. #1
    Player
    GrizzlyTank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,714
    Character
    Livia Bloodletter
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 100

    Recent Q&A about glamour log...

    Q - We have so much equipment in the game but it feels such a waste because it's either we equip them or glamour them. Is there another use for those items like having them registered as a glamour entry in a catalog? By the way, my glamour dresser is almost full.

    A - This stabs YoshiP hard because it digs up the old idea YoshiP once had

    OOF. Ouch, this definitely hurts as you're bringing back the old idea of a glamour log... I mean, we wanted to do so! We even had the text and all ready!

    We cannot include them all because it's too full and the data ccouldn't handle it...I mean if we can somehow make it work it'd be nice but....we're definitely out of space to save such data....we definitely want to realize it one day but....yeah, I'm sorry.
    Weekly glamour log thread yo.

    The space and data they used to increase our inventory size, chocobo saddle and glamour dresser dwarfs the data they would need for an optimized glamour log.

    There shouldn't be a need to log every single item individually. Each armor tends to come in sets of 5 items, so you log the set being unlocked, or they could go even more extreme and need the entire tier of armors to log it which is 35 armor pieces for one slot.

    Seeing at the database there are 2100 pieces of chest armors, 1850 legs, boots. It's safe to say there is about 1850 armors sets. If there is a requirement to unlock all armors in a tier to log it then they would need about 265 slots/bits of data for the vast majority of armors.

    Compared to one inventory slot which needs to handle item id, glamour id, dye id, quantity, durability and 5x materias. There are 16589 items in the game so item id itself need to take at least 16 bits, at worst one item slot can take 16+16+8+8+5*8=88 bits of data. And we got 90 new inventory slots with the increase so 7920 bits/slots on inventory alone and (16(item id)+8(dye id))*400= 9600 bits for glamour dresser...


    But if making new systems for the game that handles items isn't feasable, then they could at least use something they know works for it instead, which is armor coffers and achievements. Achievements can generate items that can be re-aquired at salvager and armor coffers can generate even more items. So you can get an achievement for an armor set and more, and then get a coffer for the same items so you don't have to grind against a rng to only throw it away later because your inventory is cluttered.

    Edit: had a item filter in use on the database, fixed numbers.
    (16)
    Last edited by GrizzlyTank; 07-11-2021 at 02:23 PM.

  2. #2
    Player
    MiaShino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Posts
    509
    Character
    Mia Shino
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    I did not code FF14 and have little understanding about how it is coded or why there always seems to be reason for why something cannot be done but 88 bits is not a lot of data.

    There are 8,000,000 bits in a single megabyte. Perhaps you meant bytes? Even still there are 1000000 bytes in a single megabyte. Beside this glamour should not be coupled to the actual item in the way it appears to be. Soooo create table for character inside of database > create array for glamour options > create array for potential glamour options player has access too > create single array within character database table for glamour sets.

    The only additional data that would be required is one single table of which glamour options a player has access too and what they have glamoured too. What do I know though, I have not coded in fricken ages. I only know the way we handled this when developing emulators for various things. Character data was stored using sql tables and took up very little space. One thousand players worth of sql entries equaled umm, roughly fifty megabytes of space. It could increase to two hundred megabytes when backing up tables for character recovery but still not that bad. The average enterprise grade drive is five terabytes. Enterprise grade SSDs can be found in the multiple terabyte size too.

    "we're definitely out of space to save such data" That is kinda concerning for reasons varied and I wonder how their system works. My assumption is that rather than uncouple item data from item display data they simply copy everything hence glamour dresser. The item in there is the full item.. which is silly. Same should be case with inventory, all that is required is a reference to the item the character table does not require one entire copy of the item data for that item. This was not how server emulators did it even back in 2005. Perplexing.
    (8)

  3. #3
    Player
    GrizzlyTank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,714
    Character
    Livia Bloodletter
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 100
    I'm talking about bits, because you shouldn't need anything more then a yes or no for a log. And with extreme compression it would be one bit for all gear tied to a dungeon or raid tier.
    (3)

  4. #4
    Player
    Ranhansha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    323
    Character
    Ranhansha Ootsuki
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    I'm not sure what this log is. Is it like WoW's transmog system or just a "catalogue" where you can preview the sets and that's all?
    If it's the first, I don't understand how WoW did it 20 years ago and we're still accepting the "sorry we can't" like it's actually real. If it's the second. Why would that be preferable to the first option when armoire space is so scarce and running even scarcer with every patch?
    (6)

  5. #5
    Player
    TheMightyMollusk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    7,416
    Character
    Iyami Galvayra
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranhansha View Post
    I don't understand how WoW did it 20 years ago
    Five years. The wardrobe feature was added in the pre-patch for the Legion expansion. (Also, WoW's not quite 20 years old yet.)
    (11)

  6. #6
    Player
    hobostew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    459
    Character
    Astrid Arkwright
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk View Post
    Five years. The wardrobe feature was added in the pre-patch for the Legion expansion. (Also, WoW's not quite 20 years old yet.)
    Took them a while to cobble it together, no? I always assumed the mount collection tab was a precursor to the transmog tab and that was added a fair bit before I think.

    Personally I'm pretty disappointed with that response but I'm also glad someone finally asked it and that we got a clear answer. I think I'm just gonna stop collecting anything class locked and throw away anything I'm not super attached to so I can dial back the number of retainers I currently have.
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player
    TeraRamis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    606
    Character
    Tiffah Lockhart
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 82
    Quote Originally Posted by hobostew View Post
    Took them a while to cobble it together, no.
    Yes, and the glamour dresser has been around quite a while now, too. And I'm not trying to be snide - I'm rather saying: they've had (multiple) years now to anticipate that this could become a major problem, and now we are at that juncture, and the answer cannot be "nope, sorry, we can't."

    Maybe they can't within the context of the current system, but that's when you tear down that system and build a new one. You can't continue to sell this game so heavily around paperdollism (and expect people to bolster profits by buying expensive outfits on the Mogstation) if your hardware cannot accommodate that playstyle. I mean, glamour is what FFXIV is for a lot of us.
    (11)

  8. #8
    Player
    TaleraRistain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    5,417
    Character
    Thalia Beckford
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by TeraRamis View Post
    Maybe they can't within the context of the current system, but that's when you tear down that system and build a new one. You can't continue to sell this game so heavily around paperdollism (and expect people to bolster profits by buying expensive outfits on the Mogstation) if your hardware cannot accommodate that playstyle. I mean, glamour is what FFXIV is for a lot of us.
    Migrating software systems is not just a wham, bam, thank you ma'am type of task. I can tell you've never done anything with databases or software engineering, and especially never had to deal with years of spaghetti code. Doing what you're acting like should be an easy task is not fast and is not cheap if you want to make sure you aren't massively breaking things in the process.
    (2)

  9. #9
    Player
    DPZ2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    2,590
    Character
    Dal S'ta
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 97
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranhansha View Post
    I'm not sure what this log is. Is it like WoW's transmog system or just a "catalogue" where you can preview the sets and that's all?
    If it's the first, I don't understand how WoW did it 20 years ago and we're still accepting the "sorry we can't" like it's actually real. If it's the second. Why would that be preferable to the first option when armoire space is so scarce and running even scarcer with every patch?
    Ummm... WoW wasn't even a game 20 years ago. Perhaps you meant 10 years ago? They basically rewrote the entire game code at the time, blew up all the level 1-60 areas in a worldwide disaster and lost what many considered the essence of WoW (which is why the 'classic' servers are so popular).

    My thoughts about "this should be easy" -- Blizzard did not actually tell us how much time and effort went into their coding effort, nor has Square Enix has ever given us a look at the code for the glamour system.

    You might think it's as simple as maintaining a bitmap, but you have no idea how it was done, nor how much time and effort it would take to make it into something similar to the transmog system in WoW.
    (12)

  10. #10
    Player
    Vahlnir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Tent In the Middle of Nowhere
    Posts
    9,647
    Character
    Elan Centauri
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by DPZ2 View Post
    Ummm... WoW wasn't even a game 20 years ago. Perhaps you meant 10 years ago? They basically rewrote the entire game code at the time, blew up all the level 1-60 areas in a worldwide disaster and lost what many considered the essence of WoW (which is why the 'classic' servers are so popular).

    My thoughts about "this should be easy" -- Blizzard did not actually tell us how much time and effort went into their coding effort, nor has Square Enix has ever given us a look at the code for the glamour system.

    You might think it's as simple as maintaining a bitmap, but you have no idea how it was done, nor how much time and effort it would take to make it into something similar to the transmog system in WoW.
    Yeah. It's obvious that Yoshi P would like to do it, and feels bad about not being able to, but he simply can't due to unknown limitations. Maybe they will one day if/when they figure it out, but I'm not going to count on it.
    (6)
    Quote Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida View Post
    Personal Housing
    While I cannot give a specific date on when personal housing will be implemented, I can say that prices will be completely separate from free company housing, and, naturally, far more affordable.

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