Dungeons are becoming style over substance.

[Hyrist]

There are less cruxes to the arguments then there are Crutches. The argument, again, stands on razor thin plane of narrow view and demands that are really aren't worth the time to fully address at this stage. And yes, they've been argued down before. I'm not going to glean the history of this thread and others to point it out.

And yes, COVID did impact this game, and no I mentioned it because it is a factor in recent events. Prior to that, there was a division of labor that brought new content into the fold rather than revamp assets to produce more dungeons. I mentioned tricks earlier, remember? The first was the change of design philosophy lessen extensive dungeon design to be flipped in "Hard Modes". They were far fewer in Stormblood and non-existent in Shadowbringers by design.

Let's chart that difference shall we? I won't be counting single-player instances, even though they have increased in frequency and scope through the years as well.

From ARR 31 Total dungeons 10 were Hard modes.
From Heavensward 18 Dungeons 5 Hard were modes. During this time we received Deep Dungeon and the failure that was the original Diadem.
From Stormblood 15 Dungeons 2 Hard Modes. During this time we got Heaven on High, Eureka (which Includes Baldesion Arsenal) , and 2 Ultimates.
Shadowbringers saw 13 dungeons with 0 hardmodes. We got Bozja Southern Front (+ Castrum Lacus Litore) Delubrum Reginae, Zadnor (+The Dalriada), and finally 1 Ultimate of the planned 2. (Edit, I should mention that the Trust system was implmented at this time as well, which likely added to the development cost - but that has been a gradual thing over multiple expansions since ARR.)


The redistribution of labor is plain for all to see, and arguments against current dungeon content fails to appropriately recognize or give credit to that - which fits the definition of obstinance.

Calls for more advanced, low party number was already heard in recent interviews, with Yoshi-P's patented "I can't tell you anything at this time but, look forward to the future." For weal or for woe that's usually a tell tale sign of a concern being addressed by spoilery content. I suggest you watch Asmongold/Rich's Media Tour interview if you haven't yet. Harder Low-man content was directly asked about there.

As far as my personal opinion on flash rather than substance (The title, which I've already addressed.) I maintain the stance that I disagree. Dungeon difficulty has risen through the game considerably, putting more emphasis on learning mechanics (Some of which are seen in raids.) than the dungeons before it. Barring the dungeons that were literally reused assets from 1.xx - our dungeons have been straightforward since the beginning and the emphasis has been to use them as a storytelling element on top of easy to digest grinding secessions. Viewed this way, they've been far more enjoyable both in flair and in combat over time then their previous iterations. To alter that will disrupt the flow players have long since grown comfortable with for their usual routine. Better to be putting more time-sink related options in optional content - which they have been doing.

Nothing more needs to be said here. If you're unsatisfied with the content, your time would be better spent playing other games that may closer match your desires while more content is made, rather than be arguing with people on the forum boards. FFXIV will be here when you choose to return to it.

[Anhra]

To alter that will disrupt the flow players have long since grown comfortable with for their usual routine. Better to be putting more time-sink related options in optional content - which they have been doing.

Nothing more needs to be said here. If you're unsatisfied with the content, your time would be better spent playing other games that may closer match your desires while more content is made, rather than be arguing with people on the forum boards. FFXIV will be here when you choose to return to it.

This exact attitude of many people is the reason why things are the way they are.

Why is it that Casual Players always get what they want while those who play more challenging aspects of the game, have to get on all fours, do the dogeza and spam the Forums for multiple expansions worth of time, just to get one thing MAYBE added or changed?
How long do the Healer/Tank Megathreads have to exist until the main issues are finally adressed? How long do People have to wait for more difficult Content to show up, even if it is just the same Dungeons with increased Dmg & HP?

Allow me to remind you that PvP hasnt seen any large scale changes since Heavensward, where it got butchered BECAUSE the casual side of Players complained about it being too complicated and having to put in effort? And the result ended up with PvP existing mostly for PvE reasons. Do you think its fair to all the PvP veterans of FFXIV back then, to simply tell them to buzz off and go play Game X instead, despite having put in so much effort in time into it?

[Velnora]

SB had 17 dungeons, while ShB had 13. So yes, there is less dungeon content

Dungeon difficulty has gone up? We went from Hello Kitty Island Adventure, to Animal Crossing. Oh joy. I really wouldn't be speaking for the player base as a whole when stating it is comfortable with the way dungeons are.

[Velnora]

This exact attitude of many people is the reason why things are the way they are.

Why is it that Casual Players always get what they want while those who play more challenging aspects of the game, have to get on all fours, do the dogeza and spam the Forums for multiple expansions worth of time, just to get one thing MAYBE added or changed?
How long do the Healer/Tank Megathreads have to exist until the main issues are finally adressed? How long do People have to wait for more difficult Content to show up, even if it is just the same Dungeons with increased Dmg & HP?

Allow me to remind you that PvP hasnt seen any large scale changes since Heavensward, where it got butchered BECAUSE the casual side of Players complained about it being too complicated and having to put in effort? And the result ended up with PvP existing mostly for PvE reasons. Do you think its fair to all the PvP veterans of FFXIV back then, to simply tell them to buzz off and go play Game X instead, despite having put in so much effort in time into it?

You're supposed to just accept it, and nothing will change. Or leave. This is how things get stale.

[DPZ2]

This exact attitude of many people is the reason why things are the way they are.

Why is it that Casual Players ...

The whole point is that game designers do not have to cater to all tastes. In an ideal world, with enough time, money and people, a single game could do it all. Alas, none do; we do not live in an ideal world. Gaming companies that strive to be all things to all people generally disappoint everyone at some point.

There are plenty of PvP-centric MMOs out there to satisfy the tastes of the most jaded of PvP players. This game is not one of those games.

It is not particularly lucrative to create hard-core multiplayer RPGs. It is much simpler, and lucrative, to create games such as Fortnite and League of Legends (neither of which is an MMORPG), where high-end play is encouraged.

As for this game: "Why is that Casual Players ...get what they want?" Because their desires align with the game philosophy of the development team.

Hard-core players are accommodated through higher-end gameplay.

[BaconBits]

Man I can't wait to come back in 2-4 years to see if SE has realized the error of their ways and finally removed dungeons in favor of elaborate cutscenes that lead to a Boss Rush instead.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Hard-core players are accommodated through higher-end gameplay.

Except theyre not. Even higher end gameplay is getting affected due to casual players. It’s why healers can’t get more complexity in their dps buttons. This is yoshi p’s words not mine. Apparently casual players are already overwhelmed just by having one dps button, so higher end healers are stuck spamming one button 90% of a fight and that isn’t going to change.

[Velnora]

The idea that Casual=bad, is so incredibly disingenuous. They aren't catering to casuals. They are catering to those that can't be bothered with learning how their job plays.

[Shin96]

The idea that Casual=bad, is so incredibly disingenuous. They aren't catering to casuals. They are catering to those that can't be bothered with learning how their job plays.

That's why we can't have nice things anymore, actually. Laziness is rewarded, how pathetic.

[Roda]

Man I can't wait to come back in 2-4 years to see if SE has realized the error of their ways and finally removed dungeons in favor of elaborate cutscenes that lead to a Boss Rush instead.

That's just "raids"