Please implement something to teach players how to play

[Shurrikhan]

"Screenshots, or you're lying." [Typical response to PF request that says 'Only 4-5 stars need apply' ... oh, wait, Yoshi P has already said that's what they want to avoid.]

Still beats inflated gear requirements or near-immediate disbands to make up for or reroll on the "1-star" players in your example there.

We've gone from "Do you have this thing (ilvl, prior achievements) that might point out likely performance in the content you've signed up for" to "Did you do quite well in the version of this fight one difficulty lower?"

The horror. Whatever are the players who made up for meritocratic disadvantages with gear or enough re-parties alone to do to keep their relative prestige? Players with specific skill and preparation might be able to skip that BS now. Terrible. Just terrible.

[Jadedsins]

Mate, I PuG keys just fine there. Since Legion, and through BfA and Shadowlands, I've run into 4 bad eggs (two particularly irritable healers back in Legion, a particularly bossy and bullying Boomie back in BfA, and a simultaneously arrogant and thin-skinned tank with horrible awareness who ragequit after backing into a third patrol in Shadowlands). That's out of over 800 runs. I can have some trouble getting accepted on particularly underpowered specs or those which offer little utility. Melee is always impacted from time to time, but such is to be expected on melee-unfriendly affix weeks.

Be both respectful and competent to at least the extent required for the key level you've signed up for, and it'll typically be no more "toxic" than a leveling dungeon here -- far less than your average PuG Savage, or even the typical Extreme trial "clear" group.

I decided to make a DK alt just last week. It hit 60 and I signed up for a +8 the moment I'd finished my Covenant quests -- geared only insofar as was available via MSQ / "welfare gear". I was accepted without a hitch. Ran it without a hitch. The same has been true of each of 8 characters who've gone into M+. It rarely took more than a few applications (e.g. 2-3 minutes of wait) to be accepted for a run even with my raider IO hidden. I could always find a listing with reasonable gear requirements; if the dungeon dropped 184s, I could be accepted at regular dungeon gear levels, especially if I had a ton of utility, and could pull my weight and more.

Emphasis, however, on "competent to at least the extent required for the key level you've signed up for".

Well, what you go through is not what the average wow player goes through. Getting into Mythic dungeons for new players or even returning. You need a set amount of gear that is way over the avg needed to do it. And you need to have a good score. The crappy thing about this is. Asmongold did not deserve the treatment he got by some people. Yet the wow community is just so bad that people freaked out and took it out on him. Like that is just sad for all.


Even asmongold admits that wow community is toxic and that is the normal. He said that after he saw some people in ff freak out over him and he still thought wow community was more toxic. and it is. Want to know why we don't have parsers? It is because they saw how bad the wow community treats each other, and they said no to it.

I LOVE how wow plays and flows, everything else? Not worth it. And community being the biggest factor.


Mythic keys, and raiding scene in wow is why we have so many people being anti social in this game. It left scars on the mmo community. Want to know the reason why people freaked out because asmongold started playing here? Because many players fear that this game would end up like wow with the community, and did not want them to come over here in droves.


That speaks volumes at how bad Blizzard did with enforcing rules and the wow community who treat each other so poorly.

[raelgun]

Well, what you go through is not what the average wow player goes through. Getting into Mythic dungeons for new players or even returning. You need a set amount of gear that is way over the avg needed to do it. And you need to have a good score. The crappy thing about this is. Asmongold did not deserve the treatment he got by some people. Yet the wow community is just so bad that people freaked out and took it out on him. Like that is just sad for all.


Even asmongold admits that wow community is toxic and that is the normal. He said that after he saw some people in ff freak out over him and he still thought wow community was more toxic. and it is. Want to know why we don't have parsers? It is because they saw how bad the wow community treats each other, and they said no to it.

I LOVE how wow plays and flows, everything else? Not worth it. And community being the biggest factor.


Mythic keys, and raiding scene in wow is why we have so many people being anti social in this game. It left scars on the mmo community. Want to know the reason why people freaked out because asmongold started playing here? Because many players fear that this game would end up like wow with the community, and did not want them to come over here in droves.


That speaks volumes at how bad Blizzard did with enforcing rules and the wow community who treat each other so poorly.

The average WoW player plays in guilds and groups of people they know, randomers is not the standard there.

People were anti social to start with, thats the issue, not those that have groups to run with.

FF14 is full of anti social people because they want to do things when they want and how they want, I actually consider FF14 community the more antisocial mmo because by their core, they don't like working together with other players and it has nothing to do with scars, its just people that couldn't get it their own way (carried).

I notice very heavily that those that crap on WoW end game and how 'toxic' the community is at end game are actually poorly skilled in FF14 and really demanding of others and really hate when being asked to up their game, its almost as if these people are the problem actually.

[SannaR]

The game is here for everyone to enjoy regardless of their skill level. SE places no burden on anyone to "git gud". They've even gone as far as adding the easy and very easy modes to solo duties so no one will be blocked from MSQ progress. If you're running into someone in EX/Savage/Ultimate who can't cut it, by all means remove them from the group. Maybe if they get removed often enough, they finally have the motivation to become a better player.

But it's not something that can be forced on players.

How do you know though if you kicked the right person or enough of those that are causing the problem? You can't know those things unless you have a tool that tells you that information. Not that this is about parsers. Part of the problem with the overall skill level of the player base is the lack of situational awareness. I just watched a video of a guy who was getting hit in normal O8 to things that were coming from off their screen due to how their camera was angled. They got lucky with the first few due to just happening to be on the correct side. Then during a phase where you had to dodge the non question marked aoes, people with aoe markers they got hit by one of the attacks that are based off of what the statue was preparing and never understood why/how they took damage just that they did. Not until near the end of the fight did they swivel their camera and see a question mark on the orb the statue held and they went oh I should do what that is asking of me, but still didn't have it dawn on them that some of the attack clues were coming from off screen.

Not to say tunnel vision isn't a thing or doesn't happen to everyone, but there are many who don't use the contextual clues around them. Heck there are plenty who don't even notice quick enough that something bad to the party is happening and it's their job to fix that or how to fix that. It's how you get dps or healers dead due to tanks not picking up an add they're supposed to get or that the other tank died. Or if the tank during the first boss in Quarn dies that depending on what dps you have one of you is going to need to either start kiting the boss around or actually know how your skills work so you can be the temporary punching bag until hopefully the tank can take control again.

The game doesn't teach you this and I'm not sure how other players are to teach that. For skill atm the only way you can know you're "ok" is defeating an Stone Sea Sky dummy. Which only lets you know you either have good gear, enough knowledge of your class (for dps mostly) or a little bit of both if you clear it. If you fail and gear isn't the problem how are people to know how they can get better without the need for outside resources? The hall of the novice only teaches you some things and even in on of the dps segments teaches you to only attack the target the tank is attacking which punishes anyone who might know better tactics.

Even the tank one only teaches you to make sure you have hate on everything which back when this was first implemented meant defensive tank stance on, aoe a few times and then break up your enmity combo on the group of mob while switching to your dps stance. Nothing in the game teaches you about the harder things the game throws at you and reading tool tips only get you so far.

[Jadedsins]

The average WoW player plays in guilds and groups of people they know, randomers is not the standard there.

People were anti social to start with, thats the issue, not those that have groups to run with.

FF14 is full of anti social people because they want to do things when they want and how they want, I actually consider FF14 community the more antisocial mmo because by their core, they don't like working together with other players and it has nothing to do with scars, its just people that couldn't get it their own way (carried).

I notice very heavily that those that crap on WoW end game and how 'toxic' the community is at end game are actually poorly skilled in FF14 and really demanding of others and really hate when being asked to up their game, its almost as if these people are the problem actually.

My husband would disagree with that. Most people use Group Finder and building up guilds became pointless with the power to push to play. Mix that with raider IO system that makes you have a better chance to make the groups you want, the Need for guilds has died a bunch in wow. Most players use these tools to do content.

[raelgun]

My husband would disagree with that. Most people use Group Finder and building up guilds became pointless with the power to push to play. Mix that with raider IO system that makes you have a better chance to make the groups you want, the Need for guilds has died a bunch in wow. Most players use these tools to do content.

https://www.wowprogress.com/rating.tier27

this website you should know tracks raid progress.

Just see if you can get to the end of that list.

[Jadedsins]

So can you show me a list of raids that happen just using Group Finder to counter that info you just gave me? My husband knows more about it than me.


If more Raids get built through that tool, than this list of guilds don't matter as much as more players would be using it.

[Caurcas]

Frankly, Yoshi needs to take the gloves off and make the players get good.

[SomeRandomHuman]

Frankly, Yoshi needs to take the gloves off and make the players get good.

Quoting for emphasis.

[Jojoya]

Frankly, Yoshi needs to take the gloves off and make the players get good.

Not going to happen when the players who don't meet your personal standards are still willing to pay for the game.

That's one thing the elitists overlook. They make up a small minority of the paying customers. Drive away paying customers and the developers will have even less money to make the content you want. Corporate is going to force them to switch to making the content that was attracting the majority of players so they start making more money again. Blizzard management had told the WoW devs to stop developing raids back in BC because not enough of the player base was doing them. It was only by adding easier modes so a much larger percentage of the player base was participating that they were able to keep raiding part of the game.

If you want a game where the developers are forcing players to "git gud" then you really should be playing the small indie games that are labors of love, not profit vehicles, and that only have one difficulty level.