Please implement something to teach players how to play

[SomeRandomHuman]

But those same standards cannot be expected of players doing normal content. That content is intended for everyone.

So expecting someone in the Qitana Ravel to know what their basic combo chains are and perform them is too high of a standard?

[DPZ2]

So expecting someone in the Qitana Ravel to know what their basic combo chains are and perform them is too high of a standard?

So, does this sort of thing happen to you often, or was it a one-time thing that sticks in your memory because you were feeling bored that day and wanted to find something to vent about?

Was the person level 80? Or level 75? Were you complaining in party chat, or did you suffer in silence? Did you vote kick that person (or persons, if this is an ongoing thing you encounter)? Did the run-through take the entire 90 minutes? Was the job a caster? A tank? A healer? One of the physical DPS?

Were you looking at the battle chat in-game at the time? Or did you just use that forbidden utility to spec out what was happening after the fact? [I have enough problems keeping track of my own actions in-game, let alone those of the other 3 players in an instance -- do you have god-like powers to do both?]

[Seera1024]

So, does this sort of thing happen to you often, or was it a one-time thing that sticks in your memory because you were feeling bored that day and wanted to find something to vent about?

Was the person level 80? Or level 75? Were you complaining in party chat, or did you suffer in silence? Did you vote kick that person (or persons, if this is an ongoing thing you encounter)? Did the run-through take the entire 90 minutes? Was the job a caster? A tank? A healer? One of the physical DPS?

Were you looking at the battle chat in-game at the time? Or did you just use that forbidden utility to spec out what was happening after the fact? [I have enough problems keeping track of my own actions in-game, let alone those of the other 3 players in an instance -- do you have god-like powers to do both?]

If the person is playing a class you know well, it's probably pretty easy to tell if someone's not doing the entire rotation.

Like a Black Mage would be easy to tell if they were swapping between fire and ice and using Thunder. Fire and Ice cause red or blue/white orbs to rotate around the character. Thunder is a DoT and can be seen on the enemy healthbar.

A Dragoon would be easy to tell if they are using their jumps and the Dragon eye.

Classes where the positional changes from rear to flank would be easy to tell if the person is doing their positionals properly to those who have played those classes.

Expecting players to do the basics of their class isn't expecting someone to be hard core or elite.

Just because someone is not performing their bare minimum doesn't mean a player is going to feel the need to kick the player or leave themselves. May depend on how well everyone else is doing. May depend on how willing players are in that player's group are to give a carry if the player is performing badly enough.

[Rinhi]

So, does this sort of thing happen to you often, or was it a one-time thing that sticks in your memory because you were feeling bored that day and wanted to find something to vent about?

Was the person level 80? Or level 75? Were you complaining in party chat, or did you suffer in silence? Did you vote kick that person (or persons, if this is an ongoing thing you encounter)? Did the run-through take the entire 90 minutes? Was the job a caster? A tank? A healer? One of the physical DPS?

Were you looking at the battle chat in-game at the time? Or did you just use that forbidden utility to spec out what was happening after the fact? [I have enough problems keeping track of my own actions in-game, let alone those of the other 3 players in an instance -- do you have god-like powers to do both?]

let's see
last month I had, in the span of a bit more than a week:
an E12N that had to be abandoned because both healers wouldn't use anything but the base low level spells of their class, no OGCD healing usage at all, who were toxic to everyone involved when people asked them to use something else - yes, it was their first time doing E12N, no, no one was giving them a hard time for failing mechanics
but their lack of healing meant that both rdm's ran out of MP to rez people because any modicum of damage meant someone died due to lack of healing
neither of them were sprouts and both had multiple jobs at 80 and at that level and after 5 or 6 wipes, you'd think they'd have picked up 1-2 mechs or at least thought about just following one of the players that executed the mechs, but no
a scholar who had trouble healing matoya single pulls and was complaining about the tank, every healer at 80
a tank single pulling paglthan who stopped tanking when the dps' and I pulled the rest
shinryu, where the two rdm's in the party were hardcasting verraise multiple times, both of them having multiple jobs at 80, attacking the boss and hardcasting it again, with the mentor sch not healing at all and dying to the wave mech, the first timer tank also dying to said mech (no big deal due to first timer) and the second tank not having their stance on, which meant the dps' get deleted one after another - the sprout whm being overwhelmed with the amount of healing they had to do and dying because they didn't heal themselves and instead tried to raise the tank again (nbd again)
and that whole thing almost happened again, with the rdm's hardcasting every long-ass spell for most of the fight until at least one of them figured out how dualcast worked and subsequently sped up the run a LOT, but now the sch helped with the healing

multiple people were begging and trying to help the two healers in e12 and shinryu but it fell on deaf ears or was ignored, the sch and tank in the dungeons were toxic and resistant to advice and got kicked but not before threatening reports
it's not hard to miss an RDM hardcasting or a healer standing around with a thumb in their butt, you don't even need that forbidden tool for that - and I don't understand why you'd bring it up?

[SturmChurro]

...

Sounds like the average DF experience.

[Nethereal]

Sounds like the average DF experience.

Only missing the usual "You can gtfo if you don't like it." After failing to kick a troll and not realizing they of course queued with the majority of the party.

[DPZ2]

an E12N...
shinryu...

So, not in Qitana-Ravel, the level 75 leveling dungeon.

I feel you pain, and avoid the end-game bits-and-pieces myself. Miss a bit of story that way, I suppose, but I don't run into, or frustrate, those players who think that stuff is too easy as it is.

Those who are complaining loudest could, of course, set up a youtube/twitch campaign to either

1) teach players how to perform better in high-end content [no, explaining a job rotation isn't enough]

2) discourage players from attempting that high-end content

#1 might be a bit hard, given that not every great end-game player is actually patient enough to pass on their wisdom. And not every player who want to learn can watch a video and truly understand what's going on, let alone figure out why up-down-left-right-down-down-up-up is the best pattern for beating the game.

#2 might be a bit hard if it looks like they're attacking those players who don't perform to their standards.

As someone who has spent the last <mumble> years teaching and mentoring professionals in the computer field, I know just how hard it can be. Without patience, I don't recommend it.

[SomeRandomHuman]

So, does this sort of thing happen to you often, or was it a one-time thing that sticks in your memory because you were feeling bored that day and wanted to find something to vent about?

Was the person level 80? Or level 75? Were you complaining in party chat, or did you suffer in silence? Did you vote kick that person (or persons, if this is an ongoing thing you encounter)? Did the run-through take the entire 90 minutes? Was the job a caster? A tank? A healer? One of the physical DPS?

Were you looking at the battle chat in-game at the time? Or did you just use that forbidden utility to spec out what was happening after the fact? [I have enough problems keeping track of my own actions in-game, let alone those of the other 3 players in an instance -- do you have god-like powers to do both?]

I've played, leveled, and messed around on every job long enough to have their basic rotations on muscle memory so I can identify stuff on the fly. This game isn't overly difficult and you can observe someone else if you're familiar with the visual ques and mechanics of a dungeon. I can do most of the 71-80 dungeons without paying attention what so ever.

As far as the forbidden tool. I'm a console player so I don't have access to it without going through a ludicrous amount of hoops and jumps that can get my whole PSN account banned. Then as mentioned prior, if you know what icons on other jobs mean you can easily identify stuff that's there.

[SannaR]

I've played, leveled, and messed around on every job long enough to have their basic rotations on muscle memory so I can identify stuff on the fly. This game isn't overly difficult and you can observe someone else if you're familiar with the visual ques and mechanics of a dungeon. I can do most of the 71-80 dungeons without paying attention what so ever.

As far as the forbidden tool. I'm a console player so I don't have access to it without going through a ludicrous amount of hoops and jumps that can get my whole PSN account banned. Then as mentioned prior, if you know what icons on other jobs mean you can easily identify stuff that's there.

I'm also a console player and have everyone's skills set to limited so I tend to identify skills by sound. Then there's a few skills I know what they look like by the icon that shows up on their bar. My main is a healer so I do occasionally look at people's bars. I used to get people grumpy with me back when I'd get Garuda Extreme and I'd state after about the 5th wipe before she does Aerial Blast that the group didn't have enough dps even with echo build up due to still seeing too many phases. Play this game long enough or run something often enough you don't need said tool to know dps is low or high. The highest phase change I've ever seen was in an E12 where we went to the save the memories part after the 1st Ifrit aoe. That was in a group that had like four people with TEA glamours.