Please implement something to teach players how to play

[Caurcas]

Respect and ire are both earned, indifference is free. Although indifference is not what we are talking about here.

[SturmChurro]

The problem is many players are choosing not to respect other players by playing so poorly; they are choosing not to use their kit properly (or just simply not using skills altogether). They become a burden, wasting other players time, and have to be carried through content they couldn't otherwise complete. There are times when content can't even be cleared because of this, since not everyone is pulling their weight. In party based content players are meant to actually work together.

[Mostly_Raxus]

The problem is many players are choosing not to respect other players by playing so poorly; they are choosing not to use their kit properly (or just simply not using skills altogether). They become a burden, wasting other players time, and having to be carried through content they couldn't otherwise complete; there are times when content can't even be cleared, because of this since not everyone is pulling their weight. In party based content players are meant to actually work together.

I hear your point, i really do, but theses so called standards only exist if everyone agrees to them, if you want speed runs/achievement runs/skipped CS's/excreta you go in to that with everyone wanting that, sometimes people want to be lazy and just take it slow, and i know how frustrating it can be when in a hurry, but if its randoms from DF then you cant dictate their involvement in play.

trust me when i say this, make your own grps and you will be much happier, or you will spend all your time trying to heard cats..

its not worth the effort, and you wont win against someone not wanting to participate, and you harassing them for it and catching a ban will do nothing, only queue with your FC if it bothers you, or try to just say F-it and enjoy the ride not the the chest at the end.

[Nethereal]

I hear your point, i really do, but theses so called standards only exist if everyone agrees to them, if you want speed runs/achievement runs/skipped CS's/excreta you go in to that with everyone wanting that

We're not asking for speed runs, we're asking for you to try your best and not intentionally waste other peoples time because your best isn't required.
If you are intentionally wasting other people's time and you openly admit to it then it doesn't matter what standards anyone has or places, you are disrespecting everyone you were doing content with as a matter of fact.

[MiaShino]

Boop!

The Gunbreaker quest was fricken amazing! I wish more job quests were designed like that one, I wish to give Square many hugs and boops for that one. Am most happy friends enjoyed it too.

When you realize it's not a troll. I googled.

If we are speaking about the same dynamic duo, then you too?! That is a rabbit hole I wish I had not gone down that consumed more time than it should have.

There are times when content can't even be cleared because of this, since not everyone is pulling their weight. In party based content players are meant to actually work together.

Speaking of this it was discussed here before and then there is this post from the duty finder thread. I shall quote part of it below.

I left. There was just no point. What am I going to do - teach her how to play her class? This isn't a case of failing at mechanics - it's failing, at a fundamental level, on knowing how to click fast enough and in the proper order to do moderately capable damage. We weren't going to win no matter what.

It does happen, especially if the other group members are of average or below average skill. Tis all the more reason to give tools to players that better enable learning.

[SturmChurro]

I hear your point, i really do, but theses so called standards only exist if everyone agrees to them, if you want speed runs/achievement runs/skipped CS's/excreta you go in to that with everyone wanting that, sometimes people want to be lazy and just take it slow, and i know how frustrating it can be when in a hurry, but if its randoms from DF then you cant dictate their involvement in play.

trust me when i say this, make your own grps and you will be much happier, or you will spend all your time trying to heard cats..

its not worth the effort, and you wont win against someone not wanting to participate, and you harassing them for it and catching a ban will do nothing, only queue with your FC if it bothers you, or try to just say F-it and enjoy the ride not the the chest at the end.

The standards exist in the difficulty of the content. If there are no players left in the DF to actually carry these players, they literally won't be able to complete content. That's the simple fact of the matter. For that matter, many of them - apparently - even have trouble completing MSQ content! It looks to be the reason why Yoshida is hesitant to actually add things like harder 4-player content, since each player would have to really pull their weight then. At this point, the type of content that would actually cater to this type of player would probably amount to a walking (or AFK) simulator!

Instead I think more players should just respect each other, and play the game at an adequate level. Then everyone could benefit, and content wouldn't have to be potentially 'streamlined' even more to cater to players who choose to play at this level.

[Rinhi]

"Im not going to bother trying to teach people things in game. Been there, done that. You get screamed at."

it sounds like he is saying he will scream at you, he did not say, "I get screamed at" he said "you get screamed at"

context here says that he is in fact the one screaming.

the OP is talking about himself in second person in that sentence, at least to me in that context (having been in the same shoes multiple times)
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/psych...b0928a6b781891

and if they were screamed at what led to that, was it them trying to be bossy in a dungeon where it wasn't called for, some people like to be "rules lawyers", if the see anyone acting out of their preconceived norm they have to set them straight, i got a friend that goes in to satasha and tries to make everyone do all the mechanics and gets mad as he is ignored, inface we go out of our way to trigger him by standing in stuff because he is such a pig headed fellow that we would rather fail than give him peace of mind.

having been screamed at and insulted for trying to help low and high level players alike when they were struggling to heal the tank/raid/other examples and doing it in the nicest way possible - and having seen other players do the same and being treated similarly - it's never been bossy behaviour

sometimes helping comes from a good place, but it gets ruined on delivery, sometimes, well, a lot of the times people want to help people that never wanted their help to begun with, and to levels that are annoying, and viewed as an ulterior motive..
they act like they want to help, but really they just want to tell you how bad you suck compared to them.

"gets ruined on delivery" is such a cop-out, sorry, but that's the truth, even if you walk on eggshells around some players, they will take personal offence at how nice you worded your help because you're "condescending" or similar headcanons to be the victim
I don't understand how a player that struggles wouldn't want help, but maybe it's a nurture thing?

he borderline harasses players to play to his standards, and its super annoying.
I would rather have fun with the people new caught in the magic, than the old burnt out elitist who sucks the fun out of the game because its his only merit of success in life. he is still my friend, but no way in heck are we going listen to him wile he tries to carry himself as a condescending know it all who just wants to "Help"

you know who's the condescending part most of the time? the player that carries the non-player through the content, the one that's telling them they're playing perfectly fine when they're using nothing but cure and medica 1 past level 50

hell, my first post on the forums here was defending myself against the allegations that I was being toxic to a tank and their healer, said toxicity being that I asked the healer to use something else other than cure in bardam's mettle, a level 65 dungeon, because the tank was dying to the very first pull due to the lack of healing!
true, I did accidentally aggro the second pack because I was in their line of sight during their scripted patrolling, but what the tank didn't say is that:
1) the enemies would've aggro'd to us regardless due to all of us being in line of sight of said patrol
2) painted me as if I actively tried to grief them, which I didn't
3) straight up lied to defend their friend, the bad healer, by saying that the abilties that I listed aren't unlocked at that level when in fact they were, considering I was also levelling the same class up during that time

like, sure, my response in the in-game chat was passive aggressive, I'm not going to defend that because it happened in the spur of the moment (and I'd have apologized had I not been kicked :^)), but that condescending behaviour of the tank, who actively keeps their friend from learning* their class' abilities due to this weird "you don't pay their sub" "they don't want help" line of thinking
how is that fair to all the people who will have to pick up said healer's slack in later content when they've been taught the class wrong?

*turned out they already had WHM at 80 on another character, so much for it being about letting someone learn how to play without giving them bad habits

[Mostly_Raxus]

The standards exist in the difficulty of the content. If there are no players left in the DF to actually carry these players, they literally won't be able to complete content. That's the simple fact of the matter. For that matter, many of them - apparently - even have trouble completing MSQ content! It looks to be the reason why Yoshida is hesitant to actually add things like harder 4-player content, since each player would have to really pull their weight then. At this point, the type of content that would actually cater to this type of player would probably amount to a walking (or AFK) simulator!

Instead I think more players should just respect each other, and play the game at an adequate level. Then everyone could benefit, and content wouldn't have to be potentially 'streamlined' even more to cater to players who choose to play at this level.

I agree, but especially for new player and casuals alike they dont learn they are doing something wrong till they are yelled at and ridiculed over it..

this game sets a weird standard, onew the long time players know and the new players fear.

ACT: aka the dps metor..

New players are told they will be banned for using it, and i don't think i ever saw a training dummy in open world inside of the lochs i believe.

How is someone new or not deep in the community even supposed to figure out their rotation, they are told that hard core is evil here and this game is about fun.

Then they get to endgame with mechanics plus tight enrage timers requiring optimal performance, and they get laughed out and never go back..

all wile the hard core players have all the houses with private dummy and their dps meter to parse themself till they have that 100% parse down.

there is no entry level for new players outside of other players helping and explaining.

[SturmChurro]

...

I do agree that this game is lacking supported tools to help player improvement - which is where this thread's topic is derived from (I assume). However, I think there is quite a decent amount of information available to actually play at an 'adequate' level. Players could read their tooltips, read what skills do and organize them, go out of their way to actually ask for help or feedback, look up *up to date* video or written guides, etc. It's not like it's that difficult to do if a player actually wants to improve.

Personally, I still don't understand how it can be considered "hardcore" to just do a rotation (combos even light up), use AoE, or heal, properly. If they are actively participating in content that has "tight enrage timers", I think it's even more crucial that they try to improve, even if that means going out of their way to do so. It's only fair to everyone else trying to complete said content, who are actually trying.

I don't think that "hardcore" players have all the houses, I think quite a variety of players (and bots) have housing, though, yes, it is difficult to get one regardless. However, I don't think it's that difficult to actually find a dummy to use.

[MiaShino]

However, I don't think it's that difficult to actually find a dummy to use.

It is incredibly easy to locate them, many are in the areas adjacent to the starting cities. Once you reach level 70 dungeons you can queue into Explorer mode and even summon practice dummies for you or your friends. If one of them has the program installed they can assist the struggling player even if the player is on console.

For anyone here who does not know about Explorer mode, it only works in certain dungeons but tis an amazing utility for a "practice dummy on command" that you can mash buttons on in complete privacy. There is also Stone, Sea, Sky that can assist deeps players understand how much damage they are or are not doing. It should start near idyllshire as a blue plus quest. I almost fricken forgot about Stone, Sea, Sky. I kinda feel this should be mandatory especially for those who boost jobs.