Please implement something to teach players how to play

[SomeRandomHuman]

Snip

You're assuming I lop disabled individuals with these lazy players that flip out at any type of comment or remark.

As stated prior, if someone is disabled I have literally no issue what so ever.

The players I'm concentrated on are the ones that afk dead, refuse to actually play, and/or cop nasty attitude over the most asinine things and comments. The ones intentionally doing this kind of play and spit on anyone that questions it.

As far as deaf and color blindness goes, SE has given more than a handful of options to help with that. Could they be better options? Probably, but they've spent more time and resources trying to factor that in than most companies would. As far as deafness goes... well there's nothing in this game that's purely an audio-only hint as far as I'm aware. Bosses without telegraphs generally have some kind of visual indicator on what they're doing or the name of the attack is the hint.

[Krotoan]

You're assuming I lop disabled individuals with these lazy players that flip out at any type of comment or remark.

If you are behind any sort of hard gating by difficulty or meter, you are. If this isn't something you support then this doesn't apply to you but it is being discussed in the thread.

As stated prior, if someone is disabled I have literally no issue what so ever.

The players I'm concentrated on are the ones that afk dead, refuse to actually play, and/or cop nasty attitude over the most asinine things and comments. The ones intentionally doing this kind of play and spit on anyone that questions it.

And they should be eliminated by reports and votekicks or blacklisted. We don't need additional systems to keep them from ever getting the chance to do so because it's harmful to groups who aren't part of these groups.

As far as deaf and color blindness goes, SE has given more than a handful of options to help with that. Could they be better options? Probably, but they've spent more time and resources trying to factor that in than most companies would. As far as deafness goes... well there's nothing in this game that's purely an audio-only hint as far as I'm aware. Bosses without telegraphs generally have some kind of visual indicator on what they're doing or the name of the attack is the hint.

I'm citing things that are out of peoples control or insurmountable, they're just examples of the kind of disability that requires changes to gaming systems in order to allow them to play, like an "easy" mode does.

[Shurrikhan]

I'm not worried about who benefits though, I'm concerned with who gets excluded. How many players lose access to this game because a few players on the higher end can't stand an occasional "slow" DF or have to kick someone?

That's a solid question. The way I would like to see such implemented -- and other proponents may disagree with me -- would not cost anyone access.

Let's take an extreme but basic example to start. Let's say there's someone who actually needs the Very Easy mode in MSQ -- rather than simply entering, getting the laundry while they die and then returning on the reduced difficulty to fight the mob at lower HP and no longer need to dodge most attacks, saving actual time at the computer to clear that fight.

Rather than immediately offering a Very Easy mode that merely trivializes the mechanics through rescaling, I would offer an Echo variant by which a secondary level of telegraphs, perhaps with more explicit hints, are given to provide a bit more time and clarity for the intended action. It might even outright pause the fight until one has activated their Duty Action key as intended, or slow time until one starts moving.

Such would be easier for those who were confused by what wasn't quite intuitive enough, or were fumbling with keys or trying to access their Duty Action, but it'd still draw your attention to the mechanic. These symbols you saw earlier and still see now (amid a bit more indication) mean this. If one fails even then, the game will tell you what killed you and what to do, explicitly, again calling attention to the symbols being introduced or given reminder of.

That's it. It's taking the less lazy and careless road in design. Rather than just turning the knob, you actually further scaffold the intent, and set your solo content with long-term intent in mind rather than just means of filling out /played hours.

Does that mean more effort required on the devs part to let more players fully into their game? Yes. Not significantly, but yes, of course. But look at who primarily benefits from the Easy and Very Easy modes as given, and what benefits were lost to the alleged beneficiaries, and you'll see that the policies implemented are not working as intended.

Don't expect people who feel you're trying to kick them out of the entire game to take it well though and I'm pretty sure you can kick people without telling them they suck first.

This is actually the pivotal point. Given XIV's CM policies, it is safer to kick a person without having said anything, thus giving no context at all that could be construed one way or another that might give rise to action against the kicker, than to have attempted to help a person and kick them only after they start cursing out everyone in the party and refuse to move for having been asked to use their AoE. Anyone offering advice to someone who is falling behind is taking a risk because they do not want to exclude that person or just generally want to see the playerbase improve. But how possible is that if any comment whatsoever, however tactful, however earnest, however good-humored, is treated inherently as an attack?

That is the trench being increasingly dug for those players, to whom Yoshi-P's policies and adjustments just keep handing fresh shovels.

[ForteNightshade]

...How did you even find this much straw?

The topic is about reducing community gatekeeping or what would incentivize such by having the game itself -- NOT the community -- better facilitate growth and preparedness.

That the community is thinking about how that might be done is no different than the various other QoL features we've theorized, asked for, and gotten select parts of. That does not make those in-game features somehow a matter of jumping through community hoops, no matter how badly you slant them.

Because Ralph's entire stance is literally the barest of possible minimums is perfectly okay. He has openly defeated players using outdated gear in Savage because hey, they cleared. It doesn't matter they only cleared on the backs of other players doing all the work. Caring in the slightest about your performance makes you a "tryhard elitist". It's all absolute nonsense and better left ignored.

[Jadedsins]

Well, I think everything needs to be said has been said. This is the top dog MMORPG for a reason, and they are clearly doing things right. No need for this silly change, or to teach people who don't want to be taught. So no point in either side flaming each other or getting upset cause we don't agree. This is a business after all, and things are booming. So telling them they need to change how they design the game is kinda silly at this point. As what they are doing now is making bank.


Also yes I will go by second hand info because like I said you don't have a website showing me how many raids get done in Group Finder or get made. So the info can't be compare.

[Ralph2449]

Well, I think everything needs to be said has been said. This is the top dog MMORPG for a reason, and they are clearly doing things right.

Exactly, and more importantly they ve learned from the mistakes of others since Yoshi P plays and knows many of the problems WoW has and thankfully is ignoring the pleas of certain people with a very toxic mentality in a VIDEO GAME.

WoW started as a casual mmorpg where you didnt have things like losing gear when dying but instead of staying casual they decided to focus on high end content to pander to certain elitist crowd whose ego depends on video game achievements, and through time the effects of such mentality are clear, more and more focus on high end content, casual content becomes less and less relevant and with less and less rewards so the raid loggers dont feel "forced" to do dirty casual content, even doing Torghast is a torture for them because they are "forced" to do dirty casual content since their elite selves should only focus on raid logging.

Blizzard listened to these people, hell the lead Dev is a person that sadly shares that mentality to a degree and no matter how much he tries to pander to everyone, you cannot, you have to stick to one side and focus on making a good game based on your vision, never try to satisfy opposing sides, you end up disappointing both.

He also leaves both specs and fights laden with bugs placing them apart from their theoretical values, if not outright unbeatable, which, in the case of specs, he admits to only after finally discovering the cause of the discrepancy many months later...

If he'd actually used more than voluntary player labor for his playtesting, and released the versions that had thus been successfully playtested, what you're saying might mean something.

Except, of course, in that high-end difficulty fights can absolutely be passed or failed on the basis of a 20% damage difference, or even just a difference in the timing of said damage. Theirs actually have DPS checks.

Ion no matter how much THE COMMUNITY hates him is a dev that understands his game and knows how it works, which is why THE COMMUNITY has such a hard time grasping things such as meaningful choices like covenants because the majority of them dont know how to play an RPG and think googling the best build not only makes them a good player but it is how you play an mmoRPG.

Ion knows that every spec can clear mythic and more importantly you are meant to use your brain and figure out how to do things with your comb's tools instead of "change to X spec cuz its how you do the fight, limit told me", but like you said, someone's epeen will drop if they have to wait a week for gear to pass a dps check they are currently unable to because they dont use the most broken specs and metaslave comb possible, and I know that is literally worst fate than death for the people whose self worth is based on video game achievements.


I can agree that his balancing is quite terrible, after all they created templates in pvp in legion only to barely use them while the whole point of easy to manipulate template is quick and often changes to break metas fast, but he still understands the game far better than THE COMMUNITY, at least in terms of class and raid design cuz he is absolutely hopeless in terms of casual content.

[Shurrikhan]

Ion no matter how much THE COMMUNITY hates him is a dev that understands his game and knows how it works, which is why THE COMMUNITY has such a hard time grasping things such as meaningful choices like covenants

Damn, I stand corrected; BroFists has nothing on you. 10/10, mate.

[Rinhi]

[very good post inside]

that's a good proposed change, though I fear you'd be getting comments on how "the game is playing for me" if they'd implement something like that

[Shurrikhan]

that's a good proposed change, though I fear you'd be getting comments on how "the game is playing for me" if they'd implement something like that

But that's the thing. Apart from pausing before a Duty Action that must be used not to wipe, etc. (i.e., teaching you how and when to use it on the first time), it's not remotely playing for you (just... making things more explicit/obvious), and replaces that which would allow you to just faceroll through it having learned nothing.

[Rinhi]

But that's the thing. Apart from pausing before a Duty Action that must be used not to wipe, etc. (i.e., teaching you how and when to use it on the first time), it's not playing for you, and replaces that which would allow you to just faceroll through it having learned nothing.

pausing the game is the thing; you lose control over your character and are "forced" to do something you might not want to do, but you need to do it to progress. some people (that I know) would complain about this taking control away and how the game is playing for them, even if it's nothing more than a tutorial mission or something that pops up when you've failed once or twice!
hell, a friend of mine dropped rocket league because the """tutorial""" in it is mandatory and you can't control your car in it when it's basically just a crash course for the buttons to press
some people will complain about and blame everything and everyone but themselves, is what I'm trying to say, so even with a perfect tutorial and content designed to train them to play at an average level, many of those would still complain about something