Please implement something to teach players how to play

[SomeRandomHuman]

For 15 to 20 minutes once every 200 runs? I honestly don't care. You say "they're a bigger number than they should be" ... would your threshold be >0?

Nope. I know it's impossible to weed every single one out. I'd prefer the playerbase population at this abysmal mentality be less than 5% ideally. Given we've needed things like solo trial difficulties to be made easier and for some jobs to be dumbed down to god-awful levels just proves that there's too many people complaining that they have to put a modicum of effort into a video game.

For reference 5% of 22 million is 1.1 million. This is still too many imo, but you gotta start somewhere.

[Krotoan]

Nope. I know it's impossible to weed every single one out. I'd prefer the playerbase population at this abysmal mentality be less than 5% ideally. Given we've needed things like solo trial difficulties to be made easier and for some jobs to be dumbed down to god-awful levels just proves that there's too many people complaining that they have to put a modicum of effort into a video game.

So are you saying you encounter one of these people more than once out of every 20 runs? Careful, before you immediately hammer that out that they're in "soo many DF's" think hard. Negative experiences tend to stand out and we tend not to remember the other 200 runs we did that went smoothly and were just another 12 minute DF.

Maybe it's my data center but I find actual non-contributory people to be incredibly rare and people who don't respond to gentle coaching even rarer.

The simple presence of "easier" roads to endgame don't necessarily mean there is an epidemic of people who want to be carried. There is an overlap with people with actual disabilities, limitations and those who play only for the story and organize their own willing carry parties who you'd NEVER meet in a DF.

For reference 5% of 22 million is 1.1 million. This is still too many imo, but you gotta start somewhere.

Why is that too many just because you increased the number? 5% is 5%. Chances of encountering those people remain the same.

[Shurrikhan]

...

I'd have to disagree with some of the other proponents of additional learning facilitators/checks in that I think this population is nearer to 2 or 3%, rather than a whopping 5%.

Granted, I'm also not even expecting people to use their whole kits, just not cancel their combos, use AoEs as appropriate, and at least cycle... most of their pertinent oGCDs... so if I expected a bit more from others, it might well rise to that 5% or slightly more.

Again, though, I don't think the question ought to be about how large the group that can most benefit from the suggested changes is, but rather how large the positive change, across all players, would likely be. And I think the latter is pretty huge, especially if bundled as it should be with other opportunities for polish, especially across the pre-Shadowbringers experience.

[SomeRandomHuman]

So are you saying you encounter one of these people more than once out of every 20 runs? Careful, before you immediately hammer that out that they're in "soo many DF's" think hard. Negative experiences tend to stand out and we tend not to remember the other 200 runs we did that went smoothly and were just another 12 minute DF.

Maybe it's my data center but I find actual non-contributory people to be incredibly rare and people who don't respond to gentle coaching even rarer.

The simple presence of "easier" roads to endgame don't necessarily mean there is an epidemic of people who want to be carried. There is an overlap with people with actual disabilities, limitations and those who play only for the story and organize their own willing carry parties who you'd NEVER meet in a DF.


Why is that too many just because you increased the number? 5% is 5%. Chances of encountering those people remain the same.

Well for starters 5% is 5% yes, but you're not accounting that said 5% is going to have most of that 5% in the NA datacenters. While their are some in EU and most likely a handful in JPN. I don't have a number of NA accounts to compare that 1.1 million to but I can tell you sure that it's a significantly higher percentage than 5% when compared to the NA account population.

We've all had bad experiences and I know you can't tell you've had no bad experiences in a game this big. Due to all the bad experiences I've dealt with over the years I've become relatively recluse in-game much like I am irl.

Next is the people with disabilities. As someone who is mentally handicapped themselves, I have 0 issues with disabled individuals needing to take things a bit slower-paced. In fact, I've played with an old friend who lost part of one arm in the conflicts in the middle-east. I say old friend since he passed 3 years ago from mental health issues. Let me tell you this though: it took him a few extra minutes to get situated, but once he got comfortable you wouldn't have been able to tell he was only playing with one hand. The only give away I could possibly notice was small delays in repositioning his character.

Being story focused isn't an excuse to cop a nasty attitude to people that genuinely try to help you improve. That's the other big thing and this is what separates those that want to improve and those that just don't care. It's easy to try to be cordial, but if someone decides to take everything as an attack... I think it's clear who's in the wrong.

[Krotoan]

Again, though, I don't think the question ought to be about how large the group that can most benefit from the suggested changes is, but rather how large the positive change, across all players, would likely be. And I think the latter is pretty huge, especially if bundled as it should be with other opportunities for polish, especially across the pre-Shadowbringers experience.

I'm not worried about who benefits though, I'm concerned with who gets excluded. How many players lose access to this game because a few players on the higher end can't stand an occasional "slow" DF or have to kick someone?

Well for starters 5% is 5% yes, but you're not accounting that said 5% is going to have most of that 5% in the NA datacenters. While their are some in EU and most likely a handful in JPN. I don't have a number of NA accounts to compare that 1.1 million to but I can tell you sure that it's a significantly higher percentage than 5% when compared to the NA account population.

You're just throwing numbers around to make your hypothetical problem sound worse now. You quoted 5% to show that if 5% of 22 million players is a lot of people. Yes that is. But your original idea of under 5% of people being so bad they're actually a detriment to the experience still just means 1 out of 20 instance runs which I'd say is well within what I experience (as someone who constantly caps their tomes and weekly lockouts). Are you that sure that more than 5% of the ACTIVE playerbase in NA is so bad they just cruise on auto-attack in dungeons and are so noticeably detrimental that they slow down an entire raid for faceroll content like crystal tower, OR are causing so much issues by being the one or two dead people in an actual attention requiring raid that they're wiping attempts?


Or do you just see bad (as in technically, not morally) people dying and wish that didn't happen ever because it's slightly annoying?

We've all had bad experiences and I know you can't tell you've had no bad experiences in a game this big. Due to all the bad experiences I've dealt with over the years I've become relatively recluse in-game much like I am irl.

As a fellow anti-social recluse (lol Quarantine? you mean just the same ol routine?) I can tell you that yes, I have had bad experiences and over the 10+ years I have played this game I've experienced every BM thing you can imagine. People with horrible gear or cheesing item levels just to be in stuff, people who don't know mechanics and "share" the tankbuster or spread markers in endgame, people who throw tantrums at the slightest IDEA you suggest a change in their routine, the list goes on and on. But that's just people and NOT the usual experience for this game. I continue to experience a lions share of people getting encounters done in a reasonable amount of time and really.. not saying anything as long as I hold up my part. I tank, I heal (ok kinda badly), and I DPS and the stuff gets done and in 20 minutes I'm on the next thing..


My point being that yes there's crappy experiences to be had but they aren't nearly enough to straight up gate people out of experiencing this game.

Next is the people with disabilities. As someone who is mentally handicapped themselves, I have 0 issues with disabled individuals needing to take things a bit slower-paced. In fact, I've played with an old friend who lost part of one arm in the conflicts in the middle-east. I say old friend since he passed 3 years ago from mental health issues. Let me tell you this though: it took him a few extra minutes to get situated, but once he got comfortable you wouldn't have been able to tell he was only playing with one hand. The only give away I could possibly notice was small delays in repositioning his character.

Wonderful. I'm happy your friend overcame his disability and was able to meet your standards for gameplay (and my condolences for losing someone you cared about even a long time ago) . Some people can't. Some people LITERALLY CANNOT. They physically or mentally cannot do better than pushing a couple buttons every few seconds and some cannot remember or process the complexity of even basic endgame rotations. These people would be excluded with "hard walls" and are likely what "easy" modes are for just like added accessibility for deaf or colorblind people. I don't think "easy" modes are just to let leeches into peoples precious endgame optimal runs.

Being story focused isn't an excuse to cop a nasty attitude to people that genuinely try to help you improve. That's the other big thing and this is what separates those that want to improve and those that just don't care. It's easy to try to be cordial, but if someone decides to take everything as an attack... I think it's clear who's in the wrong.

Being bad at the game or not being able to mechanically keep up is one thing , being outright rude is another. I don't abide being vile in any way and it has no place in this game. Don't expect people who feel you're trying to kick them out of the entire game to take it well though and I'm pretty sure you can kick people without telling them they suck first.

[SomeRandomHuman]

Snip

You're assuming I lop disabled individuals with these lazy players that flip out at any type of comment or remark.

As stated prior, if someone is disabled I have literally no issue what so ever.

The players I'm concentrated on are the ones that afk dead, refuse to actually play, and/or cop nasty attitude over the most asinine things and comments. The ones intentionally doing this kind of play and spit on anyone that questions it.

As far as deaf and color blindness goes, SE has given more than a handful of options to help with that. Could they be better options? Probably, but they've spent more time and resources trying to factor that in than most companies would. As far as deafness goes... well there's nothing in this game that's purely an audio-only hint as far as I'm aware. Bosses without telegraphs generally have some kind of visual indicator on what they're doing or the name of the attack is the hint.

[Krotoan]

You're assuming I lop disabled individuals with these lazy players that flip out at any type of comment or remark.

If you are behind any sort of hard gating by difficulty or meter, you are. If this isn't something you support then this doesn't apply to you but it is being discussed in the thread.

As stated prior, if someone is disabled I have literally no issue what so ever.

The players I'm concentrated on are the ones that afk dead, refuse to actually play, and/or cop nasty attitude over the most asinine things and comments. The ones intentionally doing this kind of play and spit on anyone that questions it.

And they should be eliminated by reports and votekicks or blacklisted. We don't need additional systems to keep them from ever getting the chance to do so because it's harmful to groups who aren't part of these groups.

As far as deaf and color blindness goes, SE has given more than a handful of options to help with that. Could they be better options? Probably, but they've spent more time and resources trying to factor that in than most companies would. As far as deafness goes... well there's nothing in this game that's purely an audio-only hint as far as I'm aware. Bosses without telegraphs generally have some kind of visual indicator on what they're doing or the name of the attack is the hint.

I'm citing things that are out of peoples control or insurmountable, they're just examples of the kind of disability that requires changes to gaming systems in order to allow them to play, like an "easy" mode does.