Please implement something to teach players how to play

[Ralph2449]

Bro we aren't talking about gear or ilvl progression here. We are talking about people hitting buttons. Are you okay?

I am merely talking about the natural end point of what happens when the devs pander to elitist players whose ego depends on video game achievements and how that pretty much destroys a game and makes it terrible for most casual players.

Something thankfully the SE devs seem to know by observing WoW and its terrible elitist community so they know not to make the same mistakes and pander to elitists.

[SomeRandomHuman]

the devs pander to elitist players

We're talking about people playing on a basic level. How does that mean we're elitist?

Note: basic level means that they can perform their natural rotations(combo chains, oGCD use) and their job mechanics at least partially. Generally talking level 70+.

[Roeshel]

We're talking about people playing on a basic level. How does that mean we're elitist?

Note: basic level means that they can perform their natural rotations(combo chains, oGCD use) and their job mechanics at least partially. Generally talking level 70+.

It's simple, they think they are playing on a basic level. They think that because they haven't been kicked enough. When you have a tank who is single pulling, a healer that is spam healing, or DPS single targeting pack of mobs you should tell them how to play, kick them or leave the dungeon yourself. These are community standards that you guys want to fix, it is not an issue directly related to the game but with the community itself. You shouldn't be asking the GMs to fix the things that are wrong in your community, they can't do that and they won't even try it.

[SomeRandomHuman]

It's simple, they think they are playing on a basic level. They think that because they haven't been kicked enough. When you have a tank who is single pulling, a healer that is spam healing, or DPS single targeting pack of mobs you should tell them how to play, kick them or leave the dungeon yourself. These are community standards that you guys want to fix, it is not an issue directly related to the game but with the community itself. You shouldn't be asking the GMs to fix the things that are wrong in your community, they can't do that and they won't even try it.

I've never said it's the GM team's responsibility. I've said earlier in this thread that the community needs to address this actually. Just trying to stomp out the resistance where we can first.

[Ralph2449]

I've never said it's the GM team's responsibility. I've said earlier in this thread that the community needs to address this actually. Just trying to stomp out the resistance where we can first.

And that is why I will always disagree with that because game communities are rarely healthy or have normal standards, take WoW's community for example which is known for its elitism and toxicity, if you arent a metaslave getting into groups is 4 times harder even if you are a better player because the community brainlessly values metaslaving over anything else because you really cant quantify good play(unless you start from day 1 of the patch so your r.io is ahead of the curve, i dare you to change mains later on though cuz linking main isnt as useful as some believe)
So we have a community who falsely believes the only way to clear things is only with broken meta combs and anything else is """unviable""" even though many times this """unviable""" thing performs better than the metaslaves who simply play something they dont like because they were told its meta.
The amount of times throughout the years I had people in wow go like "Omg i didnt know X """unviable""" spec I played was good" and be completely surprised because they brainlessly listened to THE COMMUNITY are too many to count.

And let's not even go to the area where THE COMMUNITY demands ilvl equal to the rewards of said content to invite someone.

So no, I absolutely am against THE COMMUNITY ever having too much power because THE COMMUNITY is more often than not very very wrong on many things because they blindly follow simple guides or streamers and never truly understand the game.

[SomeRandomHuman]

And that is why I will always disagree with that because game communities are rarely healthy or have normal standards, take WoW's community for example which is known for its elitism and toxicity, if you arent a metaslave getting into groups is 4 times harder even if you are a better player because the community brainlessly values metaslaving over anything else because you really cant quantify good play(unless you start from day 1 of the patch so your r.io is ahead of the curve, i dare you to change mains later on though cuz linking main isnt as useful as some believe)
So we have a community who falsely believes the only way to clear things is only with broken meta combs and anything else is """unviable""" even though many times this """unviable""" thing performs better than the metaslaves who simply play something they dont like because they were told its meta.
The amount of times throughout the years I had people in wow go like "Omg i didnt know X """unviable""" spec I played was good" and be completely surprised because they brainlessly listened to THE COMMUNITY are too many to count.

And let's not even go to the area where THE COMMUNITY demands ilvl equal to the rewards of said content to invite someone.

So no, I absolutely am against THE COMMUNITY ever having too much power because THE COMMUNITY is more often than not very very wrong on many things because they blindly follow simple guides or streamers and never truly understand the game.

And here we go with the exaggerations... again.

Yoshi P himself has said MANY times that everything is able to be done with any combination of jobs. People trying to undermine this are the ones who take things too far.

But setting a standard level of play at being able to perform the basic* rotation and mechanics of the job you're playing is perfectly acceptable.

*Knowing how your combos work, using your buffs/debuffs occationally, making use of any oGCD dps actions part of the time, basic understanding of any DoTs and their interactions with the job's kit, and know the main gimmick of the job to the point you know how to make use of it on a partial level.

[Ralph2449]

Yoshi P himself has said MANY times that everything is able to be done with any combination of jobs.

Ion himself has also many times said all specs are balanced to be able to clear all game content(bar world first), and even though bad average metaslaves will disagree because the sims show X meta class do 20% more damage the fact remains that all content included mythic raids can be done by all specs after the first few weeks where people have farmed some mythic gear so they can easily get over that 20% metaslave advantage(Advantage that only exists if you are able to abuse said meta spec btw).

That is the truth, what does THE COMMUNITY instead do? Refuse to believe that non meta classes are viable for content and keeps labeling anything non meta "unviable" and keeps crying about how terrible everything is.

THE COMMUNITY cannot be trusted because it is filled by easy to influence and basic people who never bother to understand the game indepth like the devs, it doesnt matter that the lead dev says something that goes against community beliefs, THE COMMUNITY will keep ignoring them and keep living on its own bubble where everything non meta is unviable because that is easy and simple to spread, and that is why you should never listen to THE COMMUNITY.

With the huge influx of wow players in FF14 and its rising in popularity dont be surprised if after a while some sweaty people figure out which 8 man comb has 2% more dps and start advertising that and THE COMMUNITY starts pretending dps jobs outside of that list are "unviable".

[Shurrikhan]

So no, I absolutely am against THE COMMUNITY ever having too much power because THE COMMUNITY is more often than not very very wrong on many things because they blindly follow simple guides or streamers and never truly understand the game.

...How did you even find this much straw?

The topic is about reducing community gatekeeping or what would incentivize such by having the game itself -- NOT the community -- better facilitate growth and preparedness.

That the community is thinking about how that might be done is no different than the various other QoL features we've theorized, asked for, and gotten select parts of. That does not make those in-game features somehow a matter of jumping through community hoops, no matter how badly you slant them.