Please implement something to teach players how to play

[Jojoya]

Frankly, Yoshi needs to take the gloves off and make the players get good.

Not going to happen when the players who don't meet your personal standards are still willing to pay for the game.

That's one thing the elitists overlook. They make up a small minority of the paying customers. Drive away paying customers and the developers will have even less money to make the content you want. Corporate is going to force them to switch to making the content that was attracting the majority of players so they start making more money again. Blizzard management had told the WoW devs to stop developing raids back in BC because not enough of the player base was doing them. It was only by adding easier modes so a much larger percentage of the player base was participating that they were able to keep raiding part of the game.

If you want a game where the developers are forcing players to "git gud" then you really should be playing the small indie games that are labors of love, not profit vehicles, and that only have one difficulty level.

[Nethereal]

adding easier modes so a much larger percentage of the player base was participating that they were able to keep raiding part of the game.

You say that as if everything in WoW doesn't lead to raiding.

[Miracle_Diva]

If you want a game where the developers are forcing players to "git gud" then you really should be playing the small indie games that are labors of love, not profit vehicles, and that only have one difficulty level.

Please, get your twitter attitude away.
If you don't want to carry your own weight, then it's You who should be playing small indie games. First of all - It's an MMO. Want it or not, you'll still have to play with others. If you don't want to do even the bare minimum, then you simply don't respect others and it's not nice, you know. People didn't pay to play for you. Second - no one is asking you to perform at Ultimate level play. I have no idea what the "personal standards" you're talking about there, but being a bot and doing nothing but afk sniffing flowers is totally not fine.

[Ralph2449]

Not going to happen when the players who don't meet your personal standards are still willing to pay for the game.

That's one thing the elitists overlook. They make up a small minority of the paying customers. Drive away paying customers and the developers will have even less money to make the content you want. Corporate is going to force them to switch to making the content that was attracting the majority of players so they start making more money again. Blizzard management had told the WoW devs to stop developing raids back in BC because not enough of the player base was doing them. It was only by adding easier modes so a much larger percentage of the player base was participating that they were able to keep raiding part of the game.

If you want a game where the developers are forcing players to "git gud" then you really should be playing the small indie games that are labors of love, not profit vehicles, and that only have one difficulty level.

Pretty much what happened in the latest WoW expansion, they decided to pander to the raid or die mentality and all the insecure people whose self worth is based on video game achievements so casual content was completely gutted and worthless.

The best casual gear people can get is literally 226 which is normal raid ilvl that is 26 ilvls below the base mythic that is 252, oh i forgot, you can upgrade that 226 into a 233 3 MONTHS FROM NOW because it unlocked at renown 75 and 233 is still a worthless normal raid ilvl which would again be 26 ilvls below the highest mythic ilvl that is 259. I already have a 252 weapon week 3 of the patch and will mostly have 240+ items from m+ so all that casual content is completely trash for me so any kind of other activity other than m+ or raid is a waste of time so there's nothing else to do.

They are so scared to give casual content that is rewarding because people whose ego depends on video games will no life and whine they are forced to do "dirty inferior casual content" like torghast instead of being allowed to just raidlog and m+ and ignore the rest of the game because the truth is they dont play the game because they like the game design, they play it because their self worth depends on video game achievements, video games designed to be beaten and make you feel that way to begin with but many gamers have never realized that.

I am thankful that SE has consistently ignored elitists in that manner and instead focuses on providing a great experience for all, because we see what happens when devs focus solely on the high end and ignore casual content.

[Seera1024]

Pretty much what happened in the latest WoW expansion, they decided to pander to the raid or die mentality and all the insecure people whose self worth is based on video game achievements so casual content was completely gutted and worthless.

The best casual gear people can get is literally 226 which is normal raid ilvl that is 26 ilvls below the base mythic that is 252, oh i forgot, you can upgrade that 226 into a 233 3 MONTHS FROM NOW because it unlocked at renown 75 and 233 is still a worthless normal raid ilvl which would again be 26 ilvls below the highest mythic ilvl that is 259. I already have a 252 weapon week 3 of the patch and will mostly have 240+ items from m+ so all that casual content is completely trash for me so any kind of other activity other than m+ or raid is a waste of time so there's nothing else to do.

They are so scared to give casual content that is rewarding because people whose ego depends on video games will no life and whine they are forced to do "dirty inferior casual content" like torghast instead of being allowed to just raidlog and m+ and ignore the rest of the game because the truth is they dont play the game because they like the game design, they play it because their self worth depends on video game achievements, video games designed to be beaten and make you feel that way to begin with but many gamers have never realized that.

I am thankful that SE has consistently ignored elitists in that manner and instead focuses on providing a great experience for all, because we see what happens when devs focus solely on the high end and ignore casual content.

No one's asking SE to focus solely on the high end and ignore the casual.

All people have been asking for in this thread for SE to put something into the game that would encourage players to play better on average.

There may be disagreements on the degree of improvement that's needed or exactly how to put that into the game, but most people don't disagree that SE could do something to increase the average skill level of players.

[Ralph2449]

No one's asking SE to focus solely on the high end and ignore the casual.

All people have been asking for in this thread for SE to put something into the game that would encourage players to play better on average.

There may be disagreements on the degree of improvement that's needed or exactly how to put that into the game, but most people don't disagree that SE could do something to increase the average skill level of players.

The problem is each person's "average" is very very different, elitist think it is average to just roflstomp and quickly do any kind of encounter efficiently and anything below that is "omg noob casuals never improve ultra bad, i am leaving, you are hopeless", that is not average, that is an inflated requirement to get their fast efficient runs certain people seem to be entitled to for some reason.

The devs on the other hand understand that an average is needed so they implement min.ilvl caps since you cant quantify average performance checks, now issue with most mmorpgs is that utility is not taught or needed as much in most of the content since 90% of the content can be done easily even without using utility which leads to people not knowing or not using it often.

The solution to that is simple, you make utility as vital as combat, you make utility needed to be used in all forms of content even at lower end or you either die or if you really feel like that is too much, you are incredibly inconvenienced if you ignore using your utility such as getting stunned for a while, knockback and in other ways have your combat disrupted.

My point about WoW is that the elitist git gud crowd whose ego depends on video game achievements is extremely toxic, and if they start listening to them we get the same situation we see in WoW, it starts friendly and nice like that "we are just trying to help people get better" and leads to them demanding casual content be nerfed because they are "forced" to do it for the rewards which is why I am thankful that it honestly seem SE devs have been studying WoW and know what not to do.

[Seera1024]

The problem is each person's "average" is very very different, elitist think it is average to just roflstomp and quickly do any kind of encounter efficiently and anything below that is "omg noob casuals never improve ultra bad, i am leaving, you are hopeless", that is not average, that is an inflated requirement to get their fast efficient runs certain people seem to be entitled to for some reason.

The devs on the other hand understand that an average is needed so they implement min.ilvl caps since you cant quantify average performance checks, now issue with most mmorpgs is that utility is not taught or needed as much in most of the content since 90% of the content can be done easily even without using utility which leads to people not knowing or not using it often.

And you've missed my point.

My point is that SE could do more to increase the average skill level of players.

Like you assigned a point value to every piece of knowledge about the combat in this game and if you gave points based on that and how well people used said knowledge you'd get the skill level of players.

A brand new just got through the initial cut scene and this is a player's first MMO would have a skill level of 0. They likely know nothing. Someone coming from another MMO would likely have some knowledge of tanking and healing even if they haven't played those roles before. They may start off with a skill level of 10.

A player like Caurcas whose been playing a long time and prefers the harder content would likely have a high score. Because they know a lot about the game.

There's nothing subjective about "do you know about X?" or "do you implement X when appropriate?" You either do or you don't.

The average I'm talking about is if you took all of those skill levels together of say players who have hit max level and average those skills. That's the average I'm talking about.

SE could do more to increase the average skill level of players.

Whether it's something they need to do or should do or how much is needed or how much they should is the purpose of this thread.

This game will not be hurt if SE decides to try to get the average player skill level to increase in and of itself. It all depends on how exactly they go about doing it.

[Krotoan]

most people don't disagree that SE could do something to increase the average skill level of players.

They could, but whether they do it by gating anyone who doesn't meet standards OFF... or making more resources to learn basics more visible is a major point of contention.

Also.. SHOULD they?

Is this supposed population of F rank players that huge that this is even necessary? Or is it being wildly exaggerated and/or including people who are slightly below calibrated thresholds who might slow things down but aren't any more than a minor inconvenience?

[SomeRandomHuman]

They could, but whether they do it by gating anyone who doesn't meet standards OFF... or making more resources to learn basics more visible is a major point of contention.

Also.. SHOULD they?

Is this supposed population of F rank players that huge that this is even necessary? Or is it being wildly exaggerated and/or including people who are slightly below calibrated thresholds who might slow things down but aren't any more than a minor inconvenience?

Would you enjoy playing with a DPS that only uses 1/5th of their skills just because they feel they don't have to do anything else since everyone else in the party will do the rest for them? They're not a huge number, but they're a bigger number than it should be.

[Krotoan]

Would you enjoy playing with a DPS that only uses 1/5th of their skills just because they feel they don't have to do anything else since everyone else in the party will do the rest for them? They're not a huge number, but they're a bigger number than it should be.

For 15 to 20 minutes once every 200 runs? I honestly don't care. You say "they're a bigger number than they should be" ... would your threshold be >0?