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  1. #1
    Player
    Jojoya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    9,091
    Character
    Jojoya Joya
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Yeol View Post
    The developers stated over and over that the reason they are dumping down jobs complexity is because of the average player performance.

    FFXIV player base lack information. The majority of them don't know where they stand in terms of performance. They assume they are doing OK, but are they really?

    I personally know a lot of players who were shocked to hear the truth about their performance. Mostly told by a friend or an FC mate. These players did not quit the game (Which for some reason a lot of players assume is what's going to happen) instead, they got better.

    Giving information made a difference. I'd assume because the information came from someone they knew instead of a complete stranger.

    Now if the game somehow made getting this information accessible without the need to refer to a friend or an FC mate. Things could change for the better.

    And just to be clear, I don't think OP is asking for top performance. They're asking for basics. Which yes, the majority of the players lack.

    I'm beginning to assume that people got used to seeing bad performance more often that they took it as the norm. Which is part of the problem.
    How do you quantify what is "okay" performance?

    I can guarantee you that players would try to set the bar for "okay" far higher than the developers have set it. Many already get upset when a dungeon isn't facerolled in 10 minutes.

    What do you do about the players using systems that meet minimum system requirements and/or have slow internet connections speeds because they live in remote areas? Do you say "tough for you, you aren't allowed to play because you aren't rich enough to have the latest tech and fastest internet"? I remember raiding in WoW back in Wrath. My computer died mid-tier, got a replacement 2 weeks later and went back to raiding with the guild. My DPS increased 30% not because I had suddenly become a better player after 2 weeks of not raiding but because I was no longer having to raid at 3-7 FPS. Skill queuing was working better for me and I could see mechanics in enough time to move out of the way consistently instead of just when I got lucky.

    Then there are the overseas players dealing with much higher ping that face the same struggles I had back in Wrath despite having good systems and good connection speeds.

    It's difficult to set standards for what is "okay" when every player's situation is different. If you personally don't want to play with those who struggle for whatever reason, that's your choice. Use PF to form groups instead of relying on Duty Finder matchmaking and you can set your own standards for who is in your group.

    But it's not up to you or any other players to decide who should be allowed to play. That's up to SE.
    (2)

  2. #2
    Player
    Ralph2449's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    221
    Character
    Iris Nakiri
    World
    Omega
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Jojoya View Post
    I can guarantee you that players would try to set the bar for "okay" far higher than the developers have set it. Many already get upset when a dungeon isn't facerolled in 10 minutes.
    Exactly this, min.ilvl requirements exist by the devs to quantify "okay" performance, technically can be done with lower ilvl but it is always safe to add a safety margin so it is already above the mathematical average requirement to get over the encounter.

    Like you said the problem appears when the average elitist demands top performance for content that neither requires nor needs it to clear but it might be needed for their quick 10 minute roflstomp run because for some reason they feel entitled to a quick run and the rewards.

    Seems like the community could degenerate the same way the WoW community has degenerated where they obsess over efficiency and anything even SLIGHTLY INEFFICIENT is labeled as "unviable" because it does 1.2% less dps, if this continues I wouldnt doubt some extreme tryhards will simulate the best 8 job comb to find the one that does 2% more damage overall and call jobs outside of that "unviable".
    (1)
    The tryhard elitist is the person who is going to finish their 5 pieces on this created to be beaten """"challenge"""" and then complaint that the baby, slower or less dexterous person are a problem which not only is toxic but indirectly implies that doing this basic created to be beaten task faster is an """achievement""" of """great skill""" which helps to falsely boost the elitist's self worth as that is their true motive, if challenge was truly their desire they would relish in the chance to do more than the rest.
    The healthy person on the other hand will either let people finish their part or assist them for their self worth does not depend on solving basic puzzles created to be beaten, aka as a video game.

  3. #3
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,849
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph2449 View Post
    Exactly this, min.ilvl requirements exist by the devs to quantify "okay" performance
    Gear =/= performance.

    Gear sets a theoretical maximum performance, but no minimum.
    (4)

  4. #4
    Player
    Ralph2449's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    221
    Character
    Iris Nakiri
    World
    Omega
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    Gear =/= performance.

    Gear sets a theoretical maximum performance, but no minimum.
    Well yeah, they dont assume people will afk and have zero performance because that would be absurd, just as absurd as elitist repeatedly saying they are seeing people that never improve and dps 1/10th of dps of their job's ability as if they literally believe the person is there pressing 1 button every 8 seconds.

    The devs expect that an average person with that gear level and a very average performance is enough, and that average performance is pretty low considering the max performance a job can bring, and more often than not there's more than a few people playing above that average performance which is why content can be beaten with multiple dead players.

    Once again the actual requirements are well defined, the problem comes when elitists demand ultra quick and efficient runs and demand triple the base requirements because god forbid they wipe even once D:
    (0)
    The tryhard elitist is the person who is going to finish their 5 pieces on this created to be beaten """"challenge"""" and then complaint that the baby, slower or less dexterous person are a problem which not only is toxic but indirectly implies that doing this basic created to be beaten task faster is an """achievement""" of """great skill""" which helps to falsely boost the elitist's self worth as that is their true motive, if challenge was truly their desire they would relish in the chance to do more than the rest.
    The healthy person on the other hand will either let people finish their part or assist them for their self worth does not depend on solving basic puzzles created to be beaten, aka as a video game.

  5. #5
    Player
    Endariel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    307
    Character
    Riviera Koji
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 42
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph2449 View Post

    Once again the actual requirements are well defined, the problem comes when elitists demand ultra quick and efficient runs and demand triple the base requirements because god forbid they wipe even once D:

    Sounds like for you, an elitist is a literally a person that presses more than 1 button (well, 2 if count 'w')
    (8)
    Last edited by Endariel; 07-15-2021 at 05:34 PM.