Please implement something to teach players how to play

[DPZ2]

FFXI has such a thing, though only a test through of your skills and knowledge through "Limit Breaks." These start at level 50.

The most infamous Limit Break was the Maat fight.

https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Shattering_Stars

You had no help and a short time window to defeat him. You had to know your job almost completely inside and out. This includes how and when to gear swap, which items to use, which food affects were best for the fight, which consumables you needed to use, etc.

Unlike what the wiki states now, back in the day, you only got one fight per Testimony. If you lost, you had to farm another one. Which took hours.

This Limit Break was brutal as some jobs had it way easier than others to beat. RDM is hands down the most difficult one due to the number of enhancing and enfeebling spells Maat has. I also witnessed my roommate do the Ranger one and that is complete feast or famine.

If you couldn't beat Maat, you couldn't do endgame, since you would never be able to go above level 70.

Yup. A test that you had to beat in order to reach beyond level 70, not mandatory training to learn your job.

It must have been really popular, as I have spent lots of time reading about the .... nah, I haven't read anything nice about the obvious gatekeeping in FFXI. People complain about the gatekeeping in this game already.

[Caitlyn]

I mean, you have the option to drop party and re-queue?

No. Since the Devs give me 120 mins to clear a dungeon, I could take the entire 120 mins by your logic ; )

[Wavaryen]

No. Since the Devs give me 120 mins to clear a dungeon, I could take the entire 120 mins by your logic ; )

Go for it. If that as long as it takes that is fine. That is the risk of DF. You win some you lose some. It is not that big of a deal.

[kaynide]

NA servers are just different and being on JP servers, where the players have a completely different culture than the western ones, so I think it's not surprising that you barely run into those players compared to others playing on NA or even EU

That's a fair point I guess- I don't know about servers outside JP, so it's fair to say my opinions are only applicable to what I know. I don't know why you put up with the AST tho, I'da dropped him like a bad hat.

No. Since the Devs give me 120 mins to clear a dungeon, I could take the entire 120 mins by your logic ; )

Sorry, what are you talking about?

I mean if you want to stand around for 120 min in CT and have enough people in your party to force everyone else to wait, I'd just drop party?

[Shurrikhan]

(Sorry for the responses to older posts; was merely following the reply trail started by others on this page.)

Blade and Soul did it. As part of the story, the game forced you into instances/scenarios where you were required to complete certain combos/learn various mechanics in order to progress. If you couldn't do them, you couldn't continue the story. They taught you class specific combos, how abilities interact with one another, different status effects, etc.
If you couldn't complete the mechanic/combo as directed Hajoon would chastise you and revive your target and you would have to keep at it until you could manage your task.

It taught at least the basics of the game and your individual class, and I think the game as a whole was better for it.

There was... very little of that in B&S, as far as I can recall. Granted, it may have just been unintrusive enough that I've forgotten over the last couple years, but I don't recall anything beyond perhaps level 15. Beyond that point, for the most part "you must use what you just learned to progress" was more limited to non-combat mechanics, like teleports, gliding, windrunning, item/zone interactions, etc.

That being said...

I completely forgot about this, there we have an example. Granted WoW's classes are a lot easier to explain imo. Since they are mostly proc based pressing random buttons in WoW already does a decent amount of damage compared to XIV where just pressing random buttons is a terrible idea on most jobs.
Is it impossible to do that with a tutorial? Absolutely not, it just requires a slightly longer explanation.

The majority of WoW specs have more nuance than any current XIV job. That's a sadly recent development, and not due to WoW's becoming any more complex, but it is what it is. Your relative throughput "just pressing random buttons" would be less than you just hitting the flashing button until your combo ends, restarting it, and repeating, with most of your kit ignored, in XIV.

Beyond the few exceptions that one could get through even Savage without even aware that you're not aware of, there is nothing about rotating combos, judging oGCD priority order, timing durationed abilities to windows that can maximize them, etc., that cannot be covered in a tutorial (or better yet, situated into one's normal activities). Anything an external game guide could do, an in-game one can do better.

[SomeRandomHuman]

Because that content is not require for them to do it. Why is that hard to understand? If the content gets done, let players play how they want. You get rewards for dealing with them. Stop trying to make DF have better odds of getting "non" leechers.

"I'm only going to use yukikaze combo and higanabana because I'm not required to do anything else."

See how that holds up in level 80 content where being that lazy is very noticeable. Level 80 content is required to progress the story so even the single-player minded people will be doing it.

[Rinhi]

But you do; you can choose to do your daily roulettes with a pre-set party (which I highly recommend). By doing the random DF, you are agreeing to take on whatever you get, be they dregs of society or the second coming of Christ himself.

@Rinhi and @Wavaryen
Sorry if this is presumptuous, but I feel you (and several others) are arguing strongly about completely different positions than you feel the other has.

My understanding is Rinhi and some others are arguing the F- crowd that AFKs and does not engage in content sucks and needs to improve. I think we all agree with that.

I think there is discussion to be had about how prevelant these F- players there actually are, and whether it's worth resources to force them to improve when we can(and should) kick them from content. For myself, I can't imagine this part of the population is more than even 1% of all players, and even then I'd bet they are just alt-trolls.

Wyvaryen and others (myself included) are arguing that your average C+ player, who can play and clear the content competently...but not necessarily as fast as your A+ player, is perfectly fine. Defending this position doesn't make him (or me) a leech or defender of leeches.
I'm not sure we agree on that, but the Devs seem to, so I'd think that makes this position acceptable.

Not meaning to put words in mouths, but it does feel like people are missing each others' points.

no, wyv is defending F- players and saying that those are perfectly fine and valid because they can clear the content and that everyone else is bad for not liking those players - and especially bad when other players ask those F- players to try to be better
I'm not talking about actual AFKers or people who don't do content, I'm talking about those F- players that actively refuse to try to be better, that actively berate and insult you for giving them advice because "DF lol"
I don't have a problem with C+ players - they can clear content fast enough, hell, I'd categorize myself as a C+ or maybe B- player even - but with people that actually PLAY the game and use their abilities I have no and I mean absolutely zero issues

[Shurrikhan]

Who says it isn't well crafted? I find it perfectly fine for what the game is trying to be, and for who the game is designed for. I've yet to really see huge spikes in difficulty outside of the obvious hardcore content, which is itself niche content.

"Except for the parts that don't work, it works fine."

That's... literally 25+% of an expansion's patch cycle contents you've excluded there.

Remember, at least in NA, even the easier Savage tiers are "obviously niche hardcore content". And there are plenty who don't even step foot among Extreme trials.

[Wavaryen]

"I'm only going to use yukikaze combo and higanabana because I'm not required to do anything else."

See how that holds up in level 80 content where being that lazy is very noticeable. Level 80 content is required to progress the story so even the single-player minded people will be doing it.

I mean I'm sure it would hold up just fine. The content that requires story is pretty easy. I know a 60 year old lady who plays a bard, and does not understand what dots are.. and just hits buttons. Was able to get through the game story. Mind you I want to be able to duo trusts with her, and hope the game allows that one day. But she was able to do it without understanding basic game stuff.


So these people will be fine in this game and are welcome by most of us.

[DPZ2]

WoW does this, SW:TOR to an extend.
Swords of Legends online does this quite extensively.
.

WoW and SW:TOR didn't have any particular mandatory training scenarios late in game (or any at all that I remember, beyond the typical "here's how you do X" in the beginning areas).

Swords of Legends online looked intriguing from 30,000 feet (I'm assuming that's the game you're describing in the rest of your post). Not bad for a game released last week on Steam. Well, intriguing until I ran into this review "Not worth playing, was cool till you hit max level then you get jumped by everyone in open world and in cities, respawn points are in the same locations so you spawn and die with 50% HP. Nothing in the game to prevent you from getting spawn killed over and over by bored people, there are no boundaries. At least in WoW you could flag open world PvP or safe in a town."

So, open world PvP, coupled with no choice to engage, coupled with ????? Sounds like it might be a cool game for some people here who want to PvP to their hearts content, but all of the training in the world doesn't do you any good if you spend most of your time dead, waiting to be revived.

Edit: Just saw some of the class spells/actions in game. Cute. They even have a Carbuncle.