Please implement something to teach players how to play

[SomeRandomHuman]

So who are you or I to tell them how to play when the game says it is ok for them to play like that?

So then why do we have all these extra actions if only 2-3 are required? You still have yet to answer this properly.

[kaynide]

Just as you choose to actively hold groups back instead of using trusts or your own pre-mades. If taking longer isn't an issue, then why do you even use the DF at all for trust-accessible content?

Why are you assuming I am playing sub-par just because I think it is acceptable?

I also don't think playing at that C+ level is "lazy". I mean, I wouldn't call a bunch of high school kids playing baseball for fun lazy because they can't compete with a professional team.

[ForteNightshade]

If believing this is what makes you sleep at night, but my personal experiences in some normal Eden raids as a healer makes me believe otherwise.

I always come back to a little experiment I did in Heavenswards. Since that was the height of the "healers shouldn't have to DPS!!!!" argument, I opted to test whether said healers could. If my co-healer didn't turn on Cleric Stance within 25 seconds of a trial, I let them solo heal the whole thing. My only exceptions were new players and to generally try and salvage a run if it became clear they simply couldn't handle it.

Oh, boy did I see things. The sheer number of players who, despite insisting healers were only meant to heal, had no idea how to actually heal was staggering. I even came across someone in full accuracy melds who spammed Medica II for literally everything and bottomed out at the start of adds in A12. They couldn't even heal the first phase solo. I even had one Dun Scaith run with a White Mage who used something like 50+ Medica II casts or something absurd.

Simply put. Not a single one of these healers could have ever cleared without their co-healer doing nearly everything for them. The healers who turned on Cleric during this experiment? Never had any problems healing with them. Go figure.

[kaynide]

A. Well-crafted. Difficulty. Curve.

Who says it isn't well crafted? I find it perfectly fine for what the game is trying to be, and for who the game is designed for. I've yet to really see huge spikes in difficulty outside of the obvious hardcore content, which is itself niche content.

[DPZ2]

WoW does ironically enough, and say what you want, but As a long time WoW player it was something consistently asked for, for a while. It works, people understand the basics more, and its easier for me to help them understand content more. This is my experience within that game at least and still is now as I lvl alts from scratch and new players seem to have a grasp on the dungeons we run. Note WoWs dungrons require a bit more over all from their players in terms of dungeons. Not a jab at 14, but a fact.

Edit: The system also existed for players who boosted character for the longest time. You had to do a mandatory tutorial so you can understand what a class did, why it did what it did, and how it applied to the content you did it in before you even got released into the world. It did this for each of WoWs specialzations, which currently functions as sperate classes unto themselves. FF can definiately do it in my opinion.

Edit 2: Also Idm players not being that good at the game or as good as me, I'm nothing special. But again, this system puts more of the onus into the hand of lazy players who brute force the game hoping others adjust. With a mandatory system, systems that BnS and WoW have done successfully, would go a long way in simply making sure you want to play the game and not ruin another persons experience simply because they dont care. I would rather have a system tell them knowing your role is mandatory and important so it no longer falls into a grey area of the ToS when a players speaks on the matter.

The MOMENT the game tells you to play your role properly, the moment a system is enforcing that, you no longer have as many people going against the grain and those that to can no longer be defended for doing less then the bare minimum, when the game gives you all the information and basics needed to play properly. If me saying it to people is an issue, I'd rather the game say it for itself and make it the first thing players see when they open the game.

There are no mandatory tutorials within WoW, unless it is something they implemented in 2019 or later. Throughout the first 15 years of play in that game, you kinda-sorta learned a little bit about how to play, but there were no real 'tutorials'.

The 'boosted player' tutorials were on par with Hall of the Novice, and greatly restricted. I was particularly disappointed that Shadow Priest was not one of the Priest options for the tutorial.

And yes, I had the maximum number of characters on Cairne on Alliance side, and the maximum number of characters on < don't remember the world, it's been 3 years > on Horde side, and played the game through every race and class possible to max level. I gave up during BFA.

[SomeRandomHuman]

Why are you assuming I am playing sub-par just because I think it is acceptable?

I also don't think playing at that C+ level is "lazy". I mean, I wouldn't call a bunch of high school kids playing baseball for fun lazy because they can't compete with a professional team.

Because defending people who refuse to improve and/or shape up is just as bad as being one yourself.

Now you're trying to deflect by comparing apples to oranges. No one in their right mind would think a high school team can compete with the pro league.

The issue here is that there's people who actively refuse to pull their own weight because they don't feel like it and apparently people like me are the bad guy for expecting people to know their basic rotations and perform them in group content.

[Wavaryen]

If you read correctly, she laughed about someone else. You should better be more informed. But thanks for compliment.
Maybe you should take some sleep and read the last few pages again (including mine posts).

Sure, you havent a problem with bad players. You have a problem with normal players. Thats why you re not able to adjust to your group. You keep your playstyle, no matter what (which is often proven by your previous posts). If you have some empathy, you would also know the difference between "bad" players and "bad" players and why its a big deal.

Some players are bad, because they are new or just limited. But they dont actaully bad, because they at least try their best. They communicate and wants to improve theirselves. They pay attention and actually play the game. Thats why I have no problem with those kinds of players. I love them. Those are making my runs more exciting than any other content. Interacting with other people is what makes MMORPGs so great.

But then we have the real bad players. Players, who are lazy and selfish. Players, who refuse to accept any critism or not willing to interact with others. They mistake FFXIV as a single player game, where everyone is their personal NPC. Those are parasites who wants to ruin the game for everyone just for the luls. No matter in clear-groups or in duty roulette, they are king (some of them even wearing a crown).


I hope its crystal clear now, because I dont want to repeat myself again ^^.




I would love to invite you to a 120 minute crystal tower run.

You are right, I had to go back and make sure. I thought you was the one mixing real life with the game. Or whatever she was saying that made her laugh for a good min.

So then why do we have all these extra actions if only 2-3 are required? You still have yet to answer this properly.

You should know the answer to that. For content that requires it.

[Rinhi]

That's not what is being discussed here (so I've been told). Most people playing are competent at the game, with like a C+ if we were grading. What you're talking about is a fraction of a fraction of the population that is largely trolls.


Truth be told, I'm not sure this widespread problem of horrible players is even a real thing. I can count on my hand the number of times I've met a player in DF who was awful and refused to improve.. most have been very agreeable and open to suggestions.

Those that I did meet were absolutely trolling the DF and easily kicked.

(I play on JP server, full disclosure; where the clowns are usually the English speakers)

the point of this thread was players not knowing how to play at level 80 in level 80 content, so it's not just 5% - at least on NA servers

NA servers are just different and being on JP servers, where the players have a completely different culture than the western ones, so I think it's not surprising that you barely run into those players compared to others playing on NA or even EU

I run into at least 2-3 every week that react negatively to even the tiniest bit of advice and who'd rather ruin the whole run because they behave like a spoiled child than continue to the dungeon or trial - for example, just yesterday I had an AST in sohr khai who stopped healing me when I nicely asked them to use malefic and gravity when they didn't have to heal me - and that casters should ABC if possible
90% of their time in the dungeon was then spent doing nothing but staring at enemies until the fight against hraesvalgr, where they started healing me again (though it wasn't needed cus PLD lol)

[kaynide]

I would love to invite you to a 120 minute crystal tower run.

I mean, you have the option to drop party and re-queue?

[Wavaryen]

Because defending people who refuse to improve and/or shape up is just as bad as being one yourself.

Now you're trying to deflect by comparing apples to oranges. No one in their right mind would think a high school team can compete with the pro league.

The issue here is that there's people who actively refuse to pull their own weight because they don't feel like it and apparently people like me are the bad guy for expecting people to know their basic rotations and perform them in group content.

Because that content is not require for them to do it. Why is that hard to understand? If the content gets done, let players play how they want. You get rewards for dealing with them. Stop trying to make DF have better odds of getting "non" leechers.