Please implement something to teach players how to play

[ZedxKayn]

... but they can get the content done without your skills.

If believing this is what makes you sleep at night, but my personal experiences in some normal Eden raids as a healer makes me believe otherwise.

[Rinhi]

Plenty wrong with it. Why does it matter if they improve? What are you getting out of it? They are having fun, they enjoy the game, and the content gets done. It is designed for them. So you telling me that you want people to improve out of the kindness of your heart? If you are so kind, than why can't you just accept that people might play bad at the class but still having fun.

because it's very self-centered to do so in a multiplayer game? a game about cooperation where you're adamantly defending people refusing to cooperate and instead impose their selfish
"it is designed for them" come the f on, dude, just because you keep saying it doesn't mean it's true, content is there to be played, not being afk through'd

actual elitists wouldn't even bother to argue with people like you, to try and make you understand - because they simply don't do the same content and they know it's not worth the hassle, but keep painting "us" as elitist tryhards because we want people to actually use their damn abilities

Like I said. The content is designed for players like them. They don't need to improve and this might be a shocker...but many people still have fun being bad at the game. And rather play in a way they enjoy. Because at the end of the day, it is still a game. They are doing content they belong in. So your help is not needed and wanted for some of them. It kinda comes off as self center a little to even say I just want players to be better in a game for no personal reasons at all. All because some people are not happy that the content takes longer to do!

they don't need to improve because they pass your insanely low standards, but having some kind of higher standard has you frothing at your mouth, makes sense
no one cares if someone is bad at the game if the player in question is willing to improve, but that's too much to ask or expect apparently
not a single dungeon in this game should take longer than 20-25 minutes with a bad DF group and yet, I've experienced plenty of +40 min runs because of players like you who are imposing their selfish and toxic behaviour and playstyle onto others
and now that I think about that, most of those were players with matching last names that threw a hissy fit when the person who held everything up was kicked and started doing everything to ruin the rest of the party's fun, what a coincidence!

It kinda comes off as self center a little to even say I just want players to be better in a game for no personal reasons at all

"you are self-centered if you want to help people" ok dude

[kaynide]

We don't get to pick who we're paired with, so please excuse us for taking issue with people that put in less effort than us for the same amount of rewards.

But you do; you can choose to do your daily roulettes with a pre-set party (which I highly recommend). By doing the random DF, you are agreeing to take on whatever you get, be they dregs of society or the second coming of Christ himself.

@Rinhi and @Wavaryen
Sorry if this is presumptuous, but I feel you (and several others) are arguing strongly about completely different positions than you feel the other has.

My understanding is Rinhi and some others are arguing the F- crowd that AFKs and does not engage in content sucks and needs to improve. I think we all agree with that.

I think there is discussion to be had about how prevelant these F- players there actually are, and whether it's worth resources to force them to improve when we can(and should) kick them from content. For myself, I can't imagine this part of the population is more than even 1% of all players, and even then I'd bet they are just alt-trolls.

Wyvaryen and others (myself included) are arguing that your average C+ player, who can play and clear the content competently...but not necessarily as fast as your A+ player, is perfectly fine. Defending this position doesn't make him (or me) a leech or defender of leeches.
I'm not sure we agree on that, but the Devs seem to, so I'd think that makes this position acceptable.

Not meaning to put words in mouths, but it does feel like people are missing each others' points.

[SomeRandomHuman]

Where are these vast number of F- 3 skill using "leeches" everyone keeps referring to? Is there an infected server I'm just unaware of?

An A+ player being mad at your average casual playing at C+ level is not leeching.

They're scattered all around everywhere. It's like that one guy that's always rude and mean to everyone for no reason. No matter where you go they're always around.

You're also deflecting my point: the act of intentionally performing sub-par while everyone else is playing more efficiently is the issue. Thankfully it's a valid reason for kicking people since they're actively holding the group back.

I will reiterate something I said before: Being new is one thing, being lazy is another.

[SomeRandomHuman]

But you do; you can choose to do your daily roulettes with a pre-set party. By doing the random DF, you are agreeing to take on whatever you get, be they dregs of society or the second coming of Christ himself.

Just as you choose to actively hold groups back instead of using trusts or your own pre-mades. If taking longer isn't an issue, then why do you even use the DF at all for trust-accessible content?

[Caurcas]

Sometimes I think we need a greater shaming culture.

[Caitlyn]

ANNNNNNND here is the person who made my wife laugh so hard. That she woke me up. Thanks for that btw. That overreacting was pretty good on your part.

I don't have a problem with bad players in content. You all do. This is not about me. I'm just calling you all out for acting like you want what is best for other players. When clearly all you want is better groups for yourself. Has nothing to do with someone elses fun.

If you read correctly, she laughed about someone else. You should better be more informed. But thanks for compliment.
Maybe you should take some sleep and read the last few pages again (including mine posts).

Sure, you havent a problem with bad players. You have a problem with normal players. Thats why you re not able to adjust to your group. You keep your playstyle, no matter what (which is often proven by your previous posts). If you have some empathy, you would also know the difference between "bad" players and "bad" players and why its a big deal.

Some players are bad, because they are new or just limited. But they dont actaully bad, because they at least try their best. They communicate and wants to improve theirselves. They pay attention and actually play the game. Thats why I have no problem with those kinds of players. I love them. Those are making my runs more exciting than any other content. Interacting with other people is what makes MMORPGs so great.

But then we have the real bad players. Players, who are lazy and selfish. Players, who refuse to accept any critism or not willing to interact with others. They mistake FFXIV as a single player game, where everyone is their personal NPC. Those are parasites who wants to ruin the game for everyone just for the luls. No matter in clear-groups or in duty roulette, they are king (some of them even wearing a crown).


I hope its crystal clear now, because I dont want to repeat myself again ^^.

I mean, what's he's been saying isn't wrong. If the Devs have made it a level of hard that can be cleared with sub-par C+ players, then that's all the level of skill that's required to play that content.

I would love to invite you to a 120 minute crystal tower run.

[Wavaryen]

because it's very self-centered to do so in a multiplayer game? a game about cooperation where you're adamantly defending people refusing to cooperate and instead impose their selfish
"it is designed for them" come the f on, dude, just because you keep saying it doesn't mean it's true, content is there to be played, not being afk through'd

actual elitists wouldn't even bother to argue with people like you, to try and make you understand - because they simply don't do the same content and they know it's not worth the hassle, but keep painting "us" as elitist tryhards because we want people to actually use their damn abilities



they don't need to improve because they pass your insanely low standards, but having some kind of higher standard has you frothing at your mouth, makes sense
no one cares if someone is bad at the game if the player in question is willing to improve, but that's too much to ask or expect apparently
not a single dungeon in this game should take longer than 20-25 minutes with a bad DF group and yet, I've experienced plenty of +40 min runs because of players like you who are imposing their selfish and toxic behaviour and playstyle onto others
and now that I think about that, most of those were players with matching last names that threw a hissy fit when the person who held everything up was kicked and started doing everything to ruin the rest of the party's fun, what a coincidence!



"you are self-centered if you want to help people" ok dude

Are you understanding what you are saying here? That because this is a mutiplayer game. They must meet other players standards. Not the game itself standards. That takes a level of ego I don't even have, and I came from wow leading mythic raids.



I only act like you all when I lead a guild, and have expectations on the people I was leading. When I was doing content that require people to give 110 percent. Just to get it done.



The few times that I went into a pug group. I never ONCE put expectations on people who I pug with. It is not my place. I used a tool that made a group for me. The people in that group they can play how they want. Why? Because they are not in my guild. I don't lead them. They don't follow me. They have a right to play however they want. be it good bad, or omg afk vote kick please.


That is it. it is that simple. The content rewards YOU for dealing with them types of players. And these players have content they can do that is fun. They don't NEED to get better because the game itself is saying it is ok. You don't need to. Enjoy yourself.



So who are you or I to tell them how to play when the game says it is ok for them to play like that?


It takes a pretty big ego to do something like that.

[DPZ2]

Blade and Soul did it. As part of the story, the game forced you into instances/scenarios where you were required to complete certain combos/learn various mechanics in order to progress. If you couldn't do them, you couldn't continue the story. They taught you class specific combos, how abilities interact with one another, different status effects, etc.
If you couldn't complete the mechanic/combo as directed Hajoon would chastise you and revive your target and you would have to keep at it until you could manage your task.

It taught at least the basics of the game and your individual class, and I think the game as a whole was better for it.

I've played Blade and Soul. The game ran you through instances, yes. Those particular mechanics were about on par with Hall of the Novice. After that - nothing.

The poster apparently wants to make mid-to-end-game tutorials mandatory. Blade and Soul did no such thing.

[Shurrikhan]

Arguably they do have a difficulty curve.

A. Well-crafted. Difficulty. Curve. That is the difference. Ours is more like a messy square root curve that suddenly jumps at the end.

Our problem is that our situated difficulties largely rely on now-defunct experiences, be that due to expansion-by-expansion obsolesce or pruning.

When were the habits useful for Savage last situated without repeated head-to-wall collisions in an ill-prepared attempt at Savage itself? When there was only one difficulty level, right about halfway between Savage and the later Normal mode. Where does one reach that now? Extreme trials, to some extent, but at a much greater stretch. The gap has widened.

At the same time, design changes have necessarily made any return to depth all the more daunting. When last were concerns and related skills like those of CC, focus targeting, kill order, kiting, or enmity-swaps outside of Provoke/Shirk alone actually situated in typical content? Early ARR.

By steadily reducing player means and agency -- the means, taken or not, by which we might approach content, giving tuning sufficient not to be overwhelmed by the simplest strats of run to gate, AoE all, repeat -- XIV has necessarily reduced the available points of interest in typical content and made the gap between typical content and more novel or involved content all the wider.