Please implement something to teach players how to play

[kaynide]

We don't get to pick who we're paired with, so please excuse us for taking issue with people that put in less effort than us for the same amount of rewards.

But you do; you can choose to do your daily roulettes with a pre-set party (which I highly recommend). By doing the random DF, you are agreeing to take on whatever you get, be they dregs of society or the second coming of Christ himself.

@Rinhi and @Wavaryen
Sorry if this is presumptuous, but I feel you (and several others) are arguing strongly about completely different positions than you feel the other has.

My understanding is Rinhi and some others are arguing the F- crowd that AFKs and does not engage in content sucks and needs to improve. I think we all agree with that.

I think there is discussion to be had about how prevelant these F- players there actually are, and whether it's worth resources to force them to improve when we can(and should) kick them from content. For myself, I can't imagine this part of the population is more than even 1% of all players, and even then I'd bet they are just alt-trolls.

Wyvaryen and others (myself included) are arguing that your average C+ player, who can play and clear the content competently...but not necessarily as fast as your A+ player, is perfectly fine. Defending this position doesn't make him (or me) a leech or defender of leeches.
I'm not sure we agree on that, but the Devs seem to, so I'd think that makes this position acceptable.

Not meaning to put words in mouths, but it does feel like people are missing each others' points.

[SomeRandomHuman]

But you do; you can choose to do your daily roulettes with a pre-set party. By doing the random DF, you are agreeing to take on whatever you get, be they dregs of society or the second coming of Christ himself.

Just as you choose to actively hold groups back instead of using trusts or your own pre-mades. If taking longer isn't an issue, then why do you even use the DF at all for trust-accessible content?

[kaynide]

Just as you choose to actively hold groups back instead of using trusts or your own pre-mades. If taking longer isn't an issue, then why do you even use the DF at all for trust-accessible content?

Why are you assuming I am playing sub-par just because I think it is acceptable?

I also don't think playing at that C+ level is "lazy". I mean, I wouldn't call a bunch of high school kids playing baseball for fun lazy because they can't compete with a professional team.

[SomeRandomHuman]

Why are you assuming I am playing sub-par just because I think it is acceptable?

I also don't think playing at that C+ level is "lazy". I mean, I wouldn't call a bunch of high school kids playing baseball for fun lazy because they can't compete with a professional team.

Because defending people who refuse to improve and/or shape up is just as bad as being one yourself.

Now you're trying to deflect by comparing apples to oranges. No one in their right mind would think a high school team can compete with the pro league.

The issue here is that there's people who actively refuse to pull their own weight because they don't feel like it and apparently people like me are the bad guy for expecting people to know their basic rotations and perform them in group content.

[Wavaryen]

Because defending people who refuse to improve and/or shape up is just as bad as being one yourself.

Now you're trying to deflect by comparing apples to oranges. No one in their right mind would think a high school team can compete with the pro league.

The issue here is that there's people who actively refuse to pull their own weight because they don't feel like it and apparently people like me are the bad guy for expecting people to know their basic rotations and perform them in group content.

Because that content is not require for them to do it. Why is that hard to understand? If the content gets done, let players play how they want. You get rewards for dealing with them. Stop trying to make DF have better odds of getting "non" leechers.

[SomeRandomHuman]

Because that content is not require for them to do it. Why is that hard to understand? If the content gets done, let players play how they want. You get rewards for dealing with them. Stop trying to make DF have better odds of getting "non" leechers.

"I'm only going to use yukikaze combo and higanabana because I'm not required to do anything else."

See how that holds up in level 80 content where being that lazy is very noticeable. Level 80 content is required to progress the story so even the single-player minded people will be doing it.

[Wavaryen]

"I'm only going to use yukikaze combo and higanabana because I'm not required to do anything else."

See how that holds up in level 80 content where being that lazy is very noticeable. Level 80 content is required to progress the story so even the single-player minded people will be doing it.

I mean I'm sure it would hold up just fine. The content that requires story is pretty easy. I know a 60 year old lady who plays a bard, and does not understand what dots are.. and just hits buttons. Was able to get through the game story. Mind you I want to be able to duo trusts with her, and hope the game allows that one day. But she was able to do it without understanding basic game stuff.


So these people will be fine in this game and are welcome by most of us.

[Rinhi]

But you do; you can choose to do your daily roulettes with a pre-set party (which I highly recommend). By doing the random DF, you are agreeing to take on whatever you get, be they dregs of society or the second coming of Christ himself.

@Rinhi and @Wavaryen
Sorry if this is presumptuous, but I feel you (and several others) are arguing strongly about completely different positions than you feel the other has.

My understanding is Rinhi and some others are arguing the F- crowd that AFKs and does not engage in content sucks and needs to improve. I think we all agree with that.

I think there is discussion to be had about how prevelant these F- players there actually are, and whether it's worth resources to force them to improve when we can(and should) kick them from content. For myself, I can't imagine this part of the population is more than even 1% of all players, and even then I'd bet they are just alt-trolls.

Wyvaryen and others (myself included) are arguing that your average C+ player, who can play and clear the content competently...but not necessarily as fast as your A+ player, is perfectly fine. Defending this position doesn't make him (or me) a leech or defender of leeches.
I'm not sure we agree on that, but the Devs seem to, so I'd think that makes this position acceptable.

Not meaning to put words in mouths, but it does feel like people are missing each others' points.

no, wyv is defending F- players and saying that those are perfectly fine and valid because they can clear the content and that everyone else is bad for not liking those players - and especially bad when other players ask those F- players to try to be better
I'm not talking about actual AFKers or people who don't do content, I'm talking about those F- players that actively refuse to try to be better, that actively berate and insult you for giving them advice because "DF lol"
I don't have a problem with C+ players - they can clear content fast enough, hell, I'd categorize myself as a C+ or maybe B- player even - but with people that actually PLAY the game and use their abilities I have no and I mean absolutely zero issues

[SomeRandomHuman]

no, wyv is defending F- players and saying that those are perfectly fine and valid because they can clear the content and that everyone else is bad for not liking those players - and especially bad when other players ask those F- players to try to be better
I'm not talking about actual AFKers or people who don't do content, I'm talking about those F- players that actively refuse to try to be better, that actively berate and insult you for giving them advice because "DF lol"
I don't have a problem with C+ players - they can clear content fast enough, hell, I'd categorize myself as a C+ or maybe B- player even - but with people that actually PLAY the game and use their abilities I have no and I mean absolutely zero issues

This. C level players will still use their basic rotations and, even if they are a little lazy about, still make use of their basic job mechanics.

F players are simply those like Wyv.

D players are typically the new players that will typically advance to the C skill level after getting to play for a while.

I'm not a min-max player. I'd put myself around the same range as C+ to B+ depending on the job and role.

[kaynide]

This. C level players will still use their basic rotations and, even if they are a little lazy about, still make use of their basic job mechanics.

F players are simply those like Wyv.

D players are typically the new players that will typically advance to the C skill level after getting to play for a while.

I'm not a min-max player. I'd put myself around the same range as C+ to B+ depending on the job and role.

Fair enough- My wife is also pretty bad, but I will say she can clear the content. She plays bard at maybe a D+/C-...but that's it! It's fine I think.