Please implement something to teach players how to play

[strawberrycake]

Again, I ask:

Please give me the names of other MMOs with which you are familiar who do this already.

I suspect the answer will be, as before, silence.

You can ask for 'mandatory', but unless you can show evidence that this is being done somewhere else (and, may I add, successfully) you're just talking through your own frustrations with players who are perhaps not as good at playing games as you are.

WoW does ironically enough, and say what you want, but As a long time WoW player it was something consistently asked for, for a while. It works, people understand the basics more, and its easier for me to help them understand content more. This is my experience within that game at least and still is now as I lvl alts from scratch and new players seem to have a grasp on the dungeons we run. Note WoWs dungrons require a bit more over all from their players in terms of dungeons. Not a jab at 14, but a fact.

Edit: The system also existed for players who boosted character for the longest time. You had to do a mandatory tutorial so you can understand what a class did, why it did what it did, and how it applied to the content you did it in before you even got released into the world. It did this for each of WoWs specialzations, which currently functions as sperate classes unto themselves. FF can definiately do it in my opinion.

Edit 2: Also Idm players not being that good at the game or as good as me, I'm nothing special. But again, this system puts more of the onus into the hand of lazy players who brute force the game hoping others adjust. With a mandatory system, systems that BnS and WoW have done successfully, would go a long way in simply making sure you want to play the game and not ruin another persons experience simply because they dont care. I would rather have a system tell them knowing your role is mandatory and important so it no longer falls into a grey area of the ToS when a players speaks on the matter.

The MOMENT the game tells you to play your role properly, the moment a system is enforcing that, you no longer have as many people going against the grain and those that to can no longer be defended for doing less then the bare minimum, when the game gives you all the information and basics needed to play properly. If me saying it to people is an issue, I'd rather the game say it for itself and make it the first thing players see when they open the game.

[Absurdity]

WoW does ironically enough, and say what you want, but As a long time WoW player it was something consistently asked for, for a while. It works, people understand the basics more, and its easier for me to help them understand content more. This is my experience within that game at least and still is now as I lvl alts from scratch and new players seem to have a grasp on the dungeons we run. Note WoWs dungrons require a bit more over all from their players in terms of dungeons. Not a jab at 14, but a fact.

Edit: The system also existed for players who boosted character for the longest time. You had to do a mandatory tutorial so you can understand what a class did, why it did what it did, and how it applied to the content you did it in before you even got released into the world. It did this for each of WoWs specialzations, which currently functions as sperate classes unto themselves. FF can definiately do it in my opinion.

I completely forgot about this, there we have an example. Granted WoW's classes are a lot easier to explain imo. Since they are mostly proc based pressing random buttons in WoW already does a decent amount of damage compared to XIV where just pressing random buttons is a terrible idea on most jobs.
Is it impossible to do that with a tutorial? Absolutely not, it just requires a slightly longer explanation.

[strawberrycake]

I completely forgot about this, there we have an example. Granted WoW's classes are a lot easier to explain imo. Since they are mostly proc based pressing random buttons in WoW already does a decent amount of damage compared to XIV where just pressing random buttons is a terrible idea on most jobs.

Yeah, its a heavier focus on its priority system, but in 14 given the current scaling, you dont even have to do your rotation properly, just dont die and all content outside EX, Savage, and Ultimate falls over evntually xD

[Absurdity]

Yeah, its a heavier focus on its priority system, but in 14 given the current scaling, you dont even have to do your rotation properly, just dont die and all content outside EX, Savage, and Ultimate falls over evntually xD

Yeah but that is basically the entire point of this thread. Sure, you can eventually get through a dungeon by just spamming uncombod abilities but it means the rest of the party has to make up for you doing 1/6th of the damage you would be doing if you pressed them in even remotely the correct order.

[Shurrikhan]

(Sorry for the responses to older posts; was merely following the reply trail started by others on this page.)

Blade and Soul did it. As part of the story, the game forced you into instances/scenarios where you were required to complete certain combos/learn various mechanics in order to progress. If you couldn't do them, you couldn't continue the story. They taught you class specific combos, how abilities interact with one another, different status effects, etc.
If you couldn't complete the mechanic/combo as directed Hajoon would chastise you and revive your target and you would have to keep at it until you could manage your task.

It taught at least the basics of the game and your individual class, and I think the game as a whole was better for it.

There was... very little of that in B&S, as far as I can recall. Granted, it may have just been unintrusive enough that I've forgotten over the last couple years, but I don't recall anything beyond perhaps level 15. Beyond that point, for the most part "you must use what you just learned to progress" was more limited to non-combat mechanics, like teleports, gliding, windrunning, item/zone interactions, etc.

That being said...

I completely forgot about this, there we have an example. Granted WoW's classes are a lot easier to explain imo. Since they are mostly proc based pressing random buttons in WoW already does a decent amount of damage compared to XIV where just pressing random buttons is a terrible idea on most jobs.
Is it impossible to do that with a tutorial? Absolutely not, it just requires a slightly longer explanation.

The majority of WoW specs have more nuance than any current XIV job. That's a sadly recent development, and not due to WoW's becoming any more complex, but it is what it is. Your relative throughput "just pressing random buttons" would be less than you just hitting the flashing button until your combo ends, restarting it, and repeating, with most of your kit ignored, in XIV.

Beyond the few exceptions that one could get through even Savage without even aware that you're not aware of, there is nothing about rotating combos, judging oGCD priority order, timing durationed abilities to windows that can maximize them, etc., that cannot be covered in a tutorial (or better yet, situated into one's normal activities). Anything an external game guide could do, an in-game one can do better.

[DPZ2]

WoW does ironically enough, and say what you want, but As a long time WoW player it was something consistently asked for, for a while. It works, people understand the basics more, and its easier for me to help them understand content more. This is my experience within that game at least and still is now as I lvl alts from scratch and new players seem to have a grasp on the dungeons we run. Note WoWs dungrons require a bit more over all from their players in terms of dungeons. Not a jab at 14, but a fact.

Edit: The system also existed for players who boosted character for the longest time. You had to do a mandatory tutorial so you can understand what a class did, why it did what it did, and how it applied to the content you did it in before you even got released into the world. It did this for each of WoWs specialzations, which currently functions as sperate classes unto themselves. FF can definiately do it in my opinion.

Edit 2: Also Idm players not being that good at the game or as good as me, I'm nothing special. But again, this system puts more of the onus into the hand of lazy players who brute force the game hoping others adjust. With a mandatory system, systems that BnS and WoW have done successfully, would go a long way in simply making sure you want to play the game and not ruin another persons experience simply because they dont care. I would rather have a system tell them knowing your role is mandatory and important so it no longer falls into a grey area of the ToS when a players speaks on the matter.

The MOMENT the game tells you to play your role properly, the moment a system is enforcing that, you no longer have as many people going against the grain and those that to can no longer be defended for doing less then the bare minimum, when the game gives you all the information and basics needed to play properly. If me saying it to people is an issue, I'd rather the game say it for itself and make it the first thing players see when they open the game.

There are no mandatory tutorials within WoW, unless it is something they implemented in 2019 or later. Throughout the first 15 years of play in that game, you kinda-sorta learned a little bit about how to play, but there were no real 'tutorials'.

The 'boosted player' tutorials were on par with Hall of the Novice, and greatly restricted. I was particularly disappointed that Shadow Priest was not one of the Priest options for the tutorial.

And yes, I had the maximum number of characters on Cairne on Alliance side, and the maximum number of characters on < don't remember the world, it's been 3 years > on Horde side, and played the game through every race and class possible to max level. I gave up during BFA.