Please implement something to teach players how to play

[Jadedsins]

Now imagine that I am your tank and you are my healer. We are in Mt Gulg. Do you think we would clear the dungeon if you were only using cure 1 and I were using no cooldowns whilst I decided to do 'The pull of legends'. Would you truly be content not able to clear the duty you queued for via the 'convenient duty finder', timer to lockout of the story mode dungeon ticking down. Maybe this is the dps' first time here and they are stuck with a tank and a healer who are 'playing their way' which in turn is not letting them clear the duty. They can not solo the dungeon, they just wished to have fun, but they are just dying over and over again, due to others on their team being selfish.

Maybe I was just raised differently, but this is just evil. Truly, truly evil. You probably do not care because you are playing the board game with no rules, but the board game always had rules. You are taking the board game they wished to play with you, and throwing it into a volcano. It is a blatant disregarded to the well being of those around you and you should be ashamed.

I just almost spit of my coffee laughing. Evil? raised? What are you talking about? I don't agree with you so what? If you care so much about your time being slowed because you group up with players like myself who enjoys the game. Than don't do DF. It is that simple, I don't care how you play, and you should not care how I play. If it is a problem vote kick us our of the group, but let me tell you most of the time. People won't because they are way more understanding. It is DF, and players who want to rush through it, or get upset cause of how some of us play in it. They are a rare case.


You can call me selfish or whatever, and I can do the same to you. I sign no contract on how I like playing when I group with you. I saw nothing in the game rules that says I got to use skills I don't like. It is not a guild, or linkshell that has a set rules. You did not make the group that says I must play in whatever way. So the only power you have is to vote kick and hope other people are just as silly as you are for having the run go a little bit slower cause you happen to group with me.

Good luck with that. Evil...lmao some of you take gaming wayyy too serious. I almost woke my husband up laughing.

[Shurrikhan]

I just almost spit of my coffee laughing. Evil? raised?

"I refuse to accede to the common interests of those around me (and whose time I necessarily affect), despite knowingly queuing for a group activity where said group's interests will likely differ from my own, and will report anyone who asks me to do accede to those interests (a.k.a., to not be a jerk)."

You did not make the group that says I must play in whatever way.

Yes, they did, actually. As did you. In joining the duty finder.

Having no predefined arbitrator by which to set the rules for you explicitly does not remove conventions or expectations. It simply centers them around what is typical.

If your interests differ from your party, well, you 4 are your own arbitrators, tacit though your communication will probably be. The more atypical someone's styles or interests, the more often that won't pan out in their favor, by whatever direction that may take. Moreover, if your interests are so atypical as to be in conflict with what is typically perceived as those of a typical player, you have no leg to stand on in arguing against a majority. And that is the situation you seem to be finding yourself in if you have to insist on your fundamental right to not give a damn about others or what the content expects from you (to play the board game solely by your own rules, as you put it, despite that being untenable by nature of it being a multi-person game).

[Jadedsins]

"I refuse to accede to the common interests of those around me (and whose time I necessarily affect), despite knowingly queuing for a group activity whose interests will likely differ from my own, and will report anyone who asks me to do accede to those interests (a.k.a., to not be a jerk)."


Yes, they did, actually. As did you. In joining the duty finder.

Having no predefined arbitrator by which to set the rules for you explicitly does not remove conventions or expectations. It simply centers them around what is typical.

If your interests differ from your party, well, you 4 are your own arbitrators, tacit though your communication will probably be. The more atypical someone's styles or interests, the more often that won't pan out in their favor, by whatever direction that may take. Moreover, if your interests are so atypical as to be in conflict with what is typically perceived as those of a typical player, you have no leg to stand on in arguing against a majority. And that is the situation you seem to be finding yourself in if you have to insist on your fundamental right to not give a damn about others or what the content expects from you (to play the board game solely by your own rules, as you put it, despite that being untenable by nature of it being a multi-person game).

You are right in this, but the community itself is very much accepting of players such as myself as long as the content gets done. Like i've only been kicked out one time and that was because I had to afk. You can play the class how you want and still get content done. And the community is very much understanding and accepting of that. The content is design around players like myself, and most people who play this game understands that. If the community started mass kicking players like me. They will find themselves kicking a TON of players each time. It would just be too much trouble.

[Faafetai]

I just almost spit of my coffee laughing. Evil? raised? What are you talking about? I don't agree with you so what? If you care so much about your time being slowed because you group up with players like myself who enjoys the game. Than don't do DF. It is that simple, I don't care how you play, and you should not care how I play. If it is a problem vote kick us our of the group, but let me tell you most of the time. People won't because they are way more understanding. It is DF, and players who want to rush through it, or get upset cause of how some of us play in it. They are a rare case.


You can call me selfish or whatever, and I can do the same to you. I sign no contract on how I like playing when I group with you. I saw nothing in the game rules that says I got to use skills I don't like. It is not a guild, or linkshell that has a set rules. You did not make the group that says I must play in whatever way. So the only power you have is to vote kick and hope other people are just as silly as you are for having the run go a little bit slower cause you happen to group with me.

Good luck with that. Evil...lmao some of you take gaming wayyy too serious. I almost woke my husband up laughing.

I never once stated that I speed run dungeons, or that my times are being slowed down. I only posited one view point of a situation that could and/or may happen due to the example you had given. I have never agreed or disagreed with you, only offered different perspective. Unfortunately, I feel it will not be even considered, and am wondering if this is similar to the one guy who streams, who refused to do his job quests just to inconvenience others, griefing sprouts or people wishing to just enjoy the game. This person has an alt with all of the job quests completed and plays with a static pretty seriously, and seems to have made another character just to grief dungeons.

I never said that I wasn't understanding, if you wish to play as you do that is fine, have fun. The game is for people to have fun, but just don't grief a sprout with your mindset is all I am saying honestly. If someone is going through a dungeon, do not intentionally push your views on others who just wish to also have fun.

I mentioned being raised differently due to how people in other cultures seem more excepting of causing someone else the inability to complete a dungeon or causing someone else grief without thinking of the others around you. You have stated multiple times as well that you 'play your way' possibly to the detriment of others. I stated you were being selfish because you do not care about the people around you, even in duty finder. You will play however way you wish and take advantage of people, who may not even know they could kick someone or even understand they were intentionally not healed and possibly wonder if they had done something wrong. What if raise was a skill you did not like and you leave someone for their first time on the floor. You would be preventing someone from enjoying the game. They can not play when they are on the floor unable to raise themselves for a first time in a Trial or dungeon, they may have been looking forward to. That is evil. You have no clue what kind of day that person has had just because you selfishly stuck to 'your way' because the raise picture just does not appeal to you.

It is not gaming I am taking seriously. If you wish to also attempt to make me sound or look like a fool by all means. Laugh at how silly it is I care about people that are behind the computer monitor. I am beginning to wonder if people truly think that this is only a game full of npc's rather than people. If it were a game that did not have online interactions I would definitely understand, but this is a game that is rated PG-13 if I am not mistaken, so there may even be people who do not see this as a game that may even think the npc are real people, who know what someone situation or mental state may be at any age. Are you going to laugh at how silly someone else is if they do indeed take these this seriously. Just some food for thought is all. Cheers. Have fun.

Something a bit strange though, say you did not like the raise skill, I feel as though you may like it when you queue up with people you normally play with especially if it would prevent you from finishing a duty. As long as it gets done, that is all that matters. If I am remembering what was said prior.

[Jadedsins]

snip

I don't see failing a dungeon the same way as being detriment. It is not like I have, as the game content is balance around players like myself. I find it silly to think a video game and grief can go hand in hand because someone gets a group that is not good enough. You say it is not about speed, yet you say taking advantage of people by doing easy content that is balance around players like myself. So if it is not speed, and how I'm playing can get the content done. Please explain to me how that is taking advantage? Like if I was using a raise spell. I would use that if it was a key part of my class, but lets say if I was playing a melee. I would not do that silly side and back dance. Or i think my husband has a move that builds up points for doing your main combo moves. Husband complain about it with his sam Eh that sounds annoying. I would prob just do base sam combos and ignore the mediate/extra combo system.


I'm not trying to make you sound like a fool, I just don't have the same mindset as you. If how I play causes harm to people in a dungeon, than they should not be playing a MMO. If failure, or TIME is a issue. Again I question why play a mmo? and no this is not aimed at you. When I group with other people, I only have one goal. To get content and enjoy doing it, don't matter how long it takes. If that hurts other people enjoyment going slower cause I don't do certain skills. I'm willing to accept that, and if the group does not like it. Vote kick. I will just find another one. Not a big deal.


Also, it is the other side who pushes views on how you should play. Players like myself are perfectly fine with doing our own thing. Sprouts are more than welcome in our groups because we don't mind the pace we go anyway.


So not sure where the whole grief sprout thing came from lmao.

[Faafetai]

previous post above.

Ah! Sorry, griefing is a term for intentionally causing grief to someone else or preventing them from playing the game in some fashion. Say purposely wearing gathering gear in a dungeon for example so the sprout healer who does not know better is unable to heal them fast enough, so they may think they are not good at the class. Stuff like that. If you yourself is also new to the game that is perfectly fine. The way you had made it sound in some of your posts, it sounded like you were 'playing your way' by purposely refusing to do certain things because they did not feel right, or appeal to you. When I mentioned taking advantage, I mean it in terms of, purposely doing things that are vindictive to people who do not know any better. As the example I gave prior, where a person is being hurtful and preventing someone from participating in the content due to the purposely not raising them as a healer.

Aye Samurai is a pain in the booty, you are suppose to build up the buffs but they fall off really fast, so if you are going through say msq roulette it can be horrible. I have not figured out how to make that class feel more smooth during those dungeons/raids. The cutscenes being in such weird places as well as every buff or debuff you place on enemies disappears and some will run through to the cutscene wall and activate it at the worst possible times.

If you are playing a melee class I suppose it depends on the class, I am still learning alot of them because I wished to know more in depth what to look out for. For example I know ninja keeps up a pinwheel, and needs to be able to use hide in order to refresh the skills to put it in lamens terms. So I know if I am tanking to make sure you I do not chain pull, they call it. Where someone grabs some enemies, but before finishing them off they start to move again which could cause those playing grief. It isn't a huge deal I guess, but I want to be able to understand how to allow people to have fun and not miss out on being able to see some of the skills in action.

Honestly dungeons can take however long as possible. I am in no rush. I know a bunch of people will go through, not even say hello, and disappear past the exit portal before I could even thank them for their time. There are all kinds of people you could get, I don't stress too much, I really enjoy watching people learn stuff, or help them if they ask for advice or anything. I am kind of bummed out when people refuse to wait on others during content especially stuff that would literally take a few seconds for the other to catch up, so they could experience the battles. Even if I have to hard raise everyone, I would rather spend the entire raid raising people so they could participate in something they may have been really invested in story wise, or excited to battle for example: The puff of darkness, within the world of darkness.

The way you were making it sound, made me think you were purposely not using skills to prevent others from physically taking part within the content. Carry on. Have fun out there on your adventure, just don't be unkind to those along the way.

[ForteNightshade]

I don't see failing a dungeon the same way as being detriment. It is not like I have, as the game content is balance around players like myself. I find it silly to think a video game and grief can go hand in hand because someone gets a group that is not good enough. You say it is not about speed, yet you say taking advantage of people by doing easy content that is balance around players like myself. So if it is not speed, and how I'm playing can get the content done. Please explain to me how that is taking advantage?

Because if everyone played down to this level of intentional... lackluster performance, to put it politely, you wouldn't be able to complete in the content. At least not in a remotely reasonable timeframe. Unless, of course, 45-60+ minute dungeons are what you consider "reasonable." All in all, it boils down to overall contribution. Refusing to do positionals on a Melee or use all the spells at your disposal on a healer, including those pesky DPS spells you may dislike, is simply willful entitlement. You're knowingly player the job wrong simply because you have little to no consideration of other players. Trying to dress that up with "I'm just playing how I enjoy!" is essentially putting lipstick on a pig and insisting it suddenly isn't a pig. If you dislike positionals, don't play Melee jobs. If you aren't willing to DPS on a healer, don't play them.

With the advent of Trusts, there is simply do reason to touch DF if you simply want a slow, leisurely stroll through the dungeon. They exist literally for that type of player because if you get someone like well, me. I'm chain pulling the entire room and wall pulling from there. The only way I'll slow down is if the majority want me to.

[Seera1024]

I don't see failing a dungeon the same way as being detriment. It is not like I have, as the game content is balance around players like myself. I find it silly to think a video game and grief can go hand in hand because someone gets a group that is not good enough. You say it is not about speed, yet you say taking advantage of people by doing easy content that is balance around players like myself. So if it is not speed, and how I'm playing can get the content done. Please explain to me how that is taking advantage? Like if I was using a raise spell. I would use that if it was a key part of my class, but lets say if I was playing a melee. I would not do that silly side and back dance. Or i think my husband has a move that builds up points for doing your main combo moves. Husband complain about it with his sam Eh that sounds annoying. I would prob just do base sam combos and ignore the mediate/extra combo system.


I'm not trying to make you sound like a fool, I just don't have the same mindset as you. If how I play causes harm to people in a dungeon, than they should not be playing a MMO. If failure, or TIME is a issue. Again I question why play a mmo? and no this is not aimed at you. When I group with other people, I only have one goal. To get content and enjoy doing it, don't matter how long it takes. If that hurts other people enjoyment going slower cause I don't do certain skills. I'm willing to accept that, and if the group does not like it. Vote kick. I will just find another one. Not a big deal.


Also, it is the other side who pushes views on how you should play. Players like myself are perfectly fine with doing our own thing. Sprouts are more than welcome in our groups because we don't mind the pace we go anyway.


So not sure where the whole grief sprout thing came from lmao.

Because when you enter via duty finder you agree to play at a level that will allow for completion of the content.

If 4 players get put into a dungeon each expecting to be carried by the other 3 members, then content won't be completed unless players compromise.

Because that's what you have to do sometimes.

I don't have where to safely stand down pat or which aoe's I can safely eat or how to use my skills to teleport me around as a black mage.

Sometimes my compromise is letting enochian drop so I don't die because dead do 0 DPS and I know the healer (or red mage) has better uses of their mp than raising me. Not to mention weakness is a DPS loss as well after being raised.