Please implement something to teach players how to play

[Jadedsins]

Yeah, and the best way to deal with players like you is first and foremost with the kick button.

and it rarely happens. You will be happy to know, that people like you are such a small percent of the player base. That most don't mind taking longer to do a dungeon, as long as it gets done.


This is why I like this community, and also reason why I stay out of high end content it is not design for people like me.


So thank you for the "carry" if it bothers you that much. Don't do DF.

[Faafetai]

Unfortunately, the 'system' put in place to teach people basic things in Final Fantasy 14 is 'suppose' to be the novice network and mentors.

This being mentioned, most know this system is not good.

There is nothing in the requirements of being said mentor that would indicate someone actually knows how to play the game. The people I have come in contact with were all similar, at the least on my data center, with the exception of some actually good mentors. This system is just not good. I know people wish to speak with one another, and there is a huge social aspect to this entire thing. On the surface it was a good idea, but not everyone learns the same way, some do not care to learn, and on the other end of the coin the people teaching do not know how to teach, or do not actually know anything and are now going on to com beg in their bikini's so they can get their "oooo wooo totes kawaii mount pwease"

At the very start of my journey into FF14, I wished for advice, some help, and wished to learn things. I would say "I was new", "This is my first time here", "I am new to so and so class" or "I am new to tanking in this game, be gentle". Now the advice always given was "Aoe", "Use your super easy to learn (at least to me) three button rotation", "I'm a healer main you can not cleanse 'sludge'", or even "you can not use certain skills you can use on Trial bosses". I began to learn early on that the 'mentors', 'healer mains', 'tank mains', and people with multiple level 80 classes leveled were not going to help me learn anything.

I understand now that a crown and all of your classes leveled means nothing at all, and I was naive to even think someone with those things could actually teach, or would actually give good advice.

I am new to THIS game, I am not a brain dead idiot, at least I do not believe I am, but I am also not pompus and think I could never be wrong about things, even about being a brain dead idiot. Maybe I truly am, I am secretly in a coma, and this is my purgatory as punishment for being some dictator of futures past.

Coming at this thread from the perspective of someone wishing to learn appose to someone who is staunchly appose to learning and wishes to 'play their way' in a perfect synchronicity with the burger king crowns, ironically.

I am unsure what you feasibly could do for those who wish to play farmville, and watch netflix while they are waiting for their memories within Syrcus Tower for the seventh week in a row placing their cryplurker gear on at the start of the duty. I would like people who are actually willing to play this game to be able to play with others who also wish to play this game other than party finder, discords, clicky fc's who trick you into joining so you can boost their fc levels/points via 'teaching' you how to craft for actions people will never activate.

For those who wish to learn, having content from ARR fixed or tweaked to be similar to some of the newer content would be a good start. If I had an amazing fight like I had within the introduction to Bozja at the beginning I would have learned even faster how things were going to be in the future. A trust system that isn't super buggy like the squads in the grand company would be nice. I am use to older games, so all of these things helped me, but I could really understand these things just kind of not helping at all.

The actual class quests not being so weird, like the scholar quest you have to keep clicking to npcs and cleansing them so you do not fail the duty. Maybe put those people in your party. All the way at the start don't tell me to just dps as the healer let me do both and have the system not be clunky. Fix the older prompts that still say to 'Tank with your Carbuncle' and 'Tank with Titan-egi' would be a small minor change. I know they most likely will not fix any of these things, but I do know for a fact I did not learn how to tank via my numerous times going out to fight Opo-opos.

The way I have been learning honestly is just going into content, and testing things out with my partner. Nothing teaches you better than to go through all of the phases of every boss without it dying in two seconds because you have a full party. Trying things out with minimum ilvl and actually having the time to learn things maybe die a few times and learn from mistakes that happen. I was honestly devastated when I got to Shadowbringer, and I couldn't go through and practice with my partner, but could only go through via the 'single player co op experience'.

Sorry for the long post. TL;DR: Maybe fix some of the older job quests so they are up to date, allow for some system to test mentors instead of it being commend based, and make the gear bigger in the duty list so people know unsyncing is a thing and you can go in to dungeons and practice with someone. Oh! and maybe scale the mobs in those dungeons if you are solo and have no friends that is not just 'the squad'. By scale I mean allow for the dungeon to be challenging but not unfair, not 'scale' and make everything a one shot.

Also, I know a ton of people will lose their minds about this, but I kind of wish to know what killed me. The only time I can find this out is going through numerous logs. I know having a outside tool makes people weird, but at least give us the basic info, the battle logs are horrible.

[Rinhi]

and it rarely happens. You will be happy to know, that people like you are such a small percent of the player base. That most don't mind taking longer to do a dungeon, as long as it gets done.
This is why I like this community, and also reason why I stay out of high end content it is not design for people like me.

rarely means it does happen, which should be telling enough
I don't do high-end content myself because I think it's too complicated, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna play badly on purpose just because I can...

Coming at this thread from the perspective of someone wishing to learn appose to someone who is staunchly appose to learning and wishes to 'play their way' in a perfect synchronicity with the burger king crowns, ironically.

there's definitively an overlap between some of those, but I've felt that the excal NN was somewhat ok when it came to giving advice, though I usually just help players that need a body for dungeons or trials rather than giving in-depth advice past "use cure/medica 2 instead of 1" and "use holy if you see more than 2 enemies around the tank" or "use your tank CDs after another and during a pull, not all of them at the same time when you're getting low on health" because there's usually not enough time to say more than this between pulls or NN chat activity

[Shurrikhan]

So everything you just said could be turned around for the other person as well. You wanting to get through the content as fast as you can, hinders my enjoyment to play how I want. As long as the content gets done even at a slower pace. I'm happy to play how I want to play and enjoy the game in my way. It is that simple, and is acceptable to the community for players such as myself in that settings. It is acceptable and the content is DESIGN around getting done with my level of skill. Someone who does not use certain skills i might not like. If players don't like the pace, get the others to vote kick or leave yourself. That is the only say and power you have. Any other will just be ignored, or get reported.

I never said every dungeon has to be speedrun. I even pointed out, myself, in the post you just quoted, that there are other means of enjoying content that are reasonable from the context of its situation and form.

I'm arguing only the idea that no expectations can ever be set, one way or the other, just because the players we encounter are random, is pure bogus. Joining a general pool does not exempt you from any and all expectations.

I will add this, though: the group matters. That the others are random doesn't give us license to wave high a "difference of playstyle" banner and go unchanged, either; you are in a group. Refusing to change for the majority around you is to force change upon them, because it is a group activity. Our "right" to play how we want when that play differs from others' preferred playstyles, in a group, is necessarily going to be in conflict with their "right" to play how they want. And, on the onset, we're the 1, not the n-1. We don't each have a party's worth of power, nor should we. So let's not call the would-be despot the victim here.

When whatever behaviors that would seemingly maximize enjoyment or interests met among my party are opposed from what I would want to do, I either just deal with it for that brief time or I leave so they've a chance at a better fit with my replacement.

[Jadedsins]

rarely means it does happen, which should be telling enough
I don't do high-end content myself because I think it's too complicated, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna play badly on purpose just because I can...

It only happen one time, and I laughed and requeued got a better group. DF is content design for players like myself. Most of the community understands that. I play how I want, and as long as the content gets done. That is all that matters. I have no reason to "change" how I play because I'm not require to do so, and it is not fun. If you have a problem with your groups doing content slower. Than that is on you. Why are you doing DF? Get some social skills and build your own groups that you can make your own rules for. As my husband said. DF is a tool of convenience.

[MiaShino]

Holy cannoli am I happy this forum allows for post history to be browsed. I only wished checking occurred sooner, I would have said less (thank you kind other Lala). I am sleepy but many thanks for engaging my feist and allowing me to vent some of it. Friends are sleeping and I already burdened them enough!

English speaking mentality is most unusual indeed! The term is theory of mind and I am struggling here with it. Perhaps it was upbringing or cultural stuffs but when I first started playing this or any game I learn as much as I can. I do not wish to be a burden to my team so I must play as best I can play. That there are some out there not using powerful or useful abilities because.. they do not like the way they look or chose not to read their skills astounds me. All that time I was queuing as my worst class (black mage), each time I let my umbral phase drop my stomach would follow. The whooooole day I played it each mistake brought sadness. My friends pushed me to continue playing it or I would never learn so I did, my first fight at level 60 after not playing it for months was the The Soul of the Creator.

I had only completed this once so was attempting to remember the mechanics while forming my 60 rotation within the mind, I was so so very nervous. I completely botched the opener, forgot to sharpcast my first thunder, forgot for a moment I had fire four and missed several fire 4 casts. I also forgot to remember Fire 4 and Blizzard 4 can only be cast under enochian which means I missed casts under enochian losing more deeps. "I am only five on aggro, I am wasting everyone else's time and failing the team. I am wasting my partner's time." I thought to myself.

We wipe to the phase where the tanks must limit break and laugh, the group twas super fricken friendly. We all forgot about that because many fights do not require the tank lb3 at all. I feel relieved because now I can remember what I learned during our first wipe. This time I will not forget my opener and I will not miss those two fire 4 casts. Annnnnd, I did it! Sure, I dropped enochian during phase transitions or by attempting to sneak in that extra fire 4 before fire 1 (I had no fire 3 procs ) because the add I targeted died before cast finished.

It was not towards the end of the fight that it all began to click, the rotation suddenly made sense in my mind. All because I listened to family and friends and pushed myself. I stayed alive too and avoided all avoidable damage, I only perished when we wiped yet still I felt I had done awfully. I did not even wish to look at the "damage logs" yet I did and.. I did top damage!

All that worrying, all that fear of letting the team down and now I have this thought that for all those times I felt this way someone on my team was not pressing their buttons because "I do not like how that spell looks". Huh. Thanks, I hate it?

[Jadedsins]

I never said every dungeon has to be speedrun. I even pointed out, myself, in the post you just quoted, that there are other means of enjoying content that are reasonable from the context of its situation and form.

I'm arguing only the idea that no expectations can ever be set, one way or the other, just because the players we encounter are random, is pure bogus. Joining a general pool does not exempt you from any and all expectations.

I will add this, though: the group matters. That the others are random doesn't give us license to wave high a "difference of playstyle" banner and go unchanged, either; you are in a group. Refusing to change for the majority around you is to force change upon them, because it is a group activity. Our "right" to play how we want when that play differs from others' preferred playstyles, in a group, is necessarily going to be in conflict with their "right" to play how they want. And, on the onset, we're the 1, not the n-1. We don't each have a party's worth of power, nor should we. So let's not call the would-be despot the victim here.

When whatever behaviors that would seemingly maximize enjoyment or interests met among my party are opposed from what I would want to do, I either just deal with it for that brief time or I leave so they've a chance at a better fit with my replacement.

I understand what you were saying, I was just trying to point out that because DF groups don't have prerequisite on player skills. Anything one side can say about ruining fun, or dealing with people. Can be used by the other side. It is a losing battle for both sides.




It is like playing a board game, and the board game does not have any rules. You follow your own code, I follow mine. We can't argue with each other as the board game does not allow it. So who is right on how they play said board game? That is DF.

[Jadedsins]

We wipe to the phase where the tanks must limit break and laugh, the group twas super fricken friendly. We all forgot about that because many fights do not require the tank lb3 at all. I feel relieved because now I can remember what I learned during our first wipe. This time I will not forget my opener and I will not miss those two fire 4 casts. Annnnnd, I did it! Sure, I dropped enochian during phase transitions or by attempting to sneak in that extra fire 4 before fire 1 (I had no fire 3 procs ) because the add I targeted died before cast finished.

It was not towards the end of the fight that it all began to click, the rotation suddenly made sense in my mind. All because I listened to family and friends and pushed myself. I stayed alive too and avoided all avoidable damage, I only perished when we wiped yet still I felt I had done awfully. I did not even wish to look at the "damage logs" yet I did and.. I did top damage!

All that worrying, all that fear of letting the team down and now I have this thought that for all those times I felt this way someone on my team was not pressing their buttons because "I do not like how that spell looks". Huh. Thanks, I hate it?

I never understood how people worried or felt like this over a game, but hey as long as that your way of having fun. Who am I to judge? If you want to beat yourself up over making mistakes and "failing" a group. I'm not going to judge at all. However, if you worried about grouping with players such as myself. Just build a social network and group with people you know you can depend on. That is part of the mmorpg.


If you don't have the time, and just want to use the convenience tools that builds you a group. Well just understand that a huge part of the community has players such as myself. It is not that bad

[Roeshel]

I mean you could, but don't be shocked if you get reported for it. You dying in a video game in a DF group might not be fun for you, but you can leave the group instead of telling players to do better. So if you pick to stay in that DF group. You got to deal with players like me.

This is just a bunch of nonsense. Even if you are that low to report someone for telling you how to play you won't get them banned for it. In FFXIV there is this weird propaganda going on that you will get banned for just talking and whatnot. A couple of people have allegedly reported me for harassment in-game, in df and in pf for raids. My account has not been warned, banned or suspended because obviously I was not harassing anyone and the GMs did not buy the stories of the fake harassment victims. I mean, they can check the chat logs after all. It doesn't matter how twisted your version of the story is and that you fabricated it in a way in which you paint yourself as this poor victim who got harassment in a dungeon for being told to think while playing FFXIV.

[MiaShino]

Pfffffffffffff, I figured out that Jadedsins was the wife before even finishing reading through the posts. Same style, same talking points.

Balmung > Crystal. Now I understand the meme, I thought it might be one of those things that people say and it is not really true but holy jeebus. I am tapping out "who cares as long as we complete the duty" broke the mind. It is over for me.. Mia. I will be M.I.A.

This is the only multiplayer game I have ever played where people act this way, never in all my time have I seen something so patently absurd.

World of tanks - Do not scout as light tank, party will not be pleased.
Left 4 Dead 2 - Run around throwing Molotov's at the party and you will be kicked.
CS;GO - Do not buy or get body armor and just toss smoke grenades at your own team? You will be kicked.
Overwatch - Queue as Mercy or Lucio and never heal the party or play poorly in ranked? You guessed it everybody! Kick.
Aion - Did not do many of the dungeons or "raids" here buuuuut, healers were expected to do damage and not doing it caused feist. One of the strongest pvp classes was Cleric (end game stuffs was all PVP even the raids).
Swtor - Queue as deeps into flashpoints and stand around barely doing anything? You will be yelled at then kicked.

I mean.. name one other multiplayer team based game where "playing your way" and "well we won who cares how?" would be accepted. I am too sleepy for this nonsense. I stay with what I originally said, this community has issues that transcend games. Do these players do this in all facets of life, job included? I am sorry for anyone who must work along side them.

I never understood how people worried or felt like this over a game, but hey as long as that your way of having fun. Who am I to judge? If you want to beat yourself up over making mistakes and "failing" a group. I'm not going to judge at all. However, if you worried about grouping with players such as myself. Just build a social network and group with people you know you can depend on. That is part of the mmorpg.


If you don't have the time, and just want to use the convenience tools that builds you a group. Well just understand that a huge part of the community has players such as myself. It is not that bad

"Huge part of the community has players such as myself"

"Just build a social network"

Kinda difficult to do this when see first quote. Also.. pass. I am sure you and your husbando would be happy if we sequestered ourselves away in linkshells and stopped queuing so no one would ever ask you why you do not use half of your skills anymore. I was raised better and I was raised mostly Japanese. It is obvious we do not think the way others do. Painfully obvious.