Please implement something to teach players how to play

[Wavaryen]

Hmm. It is most interesting that so many of these kinda posts are appearing now but it is not a bad thing at'all! Nope nope it is good to see because many have been feeling burnout (friends and family and myself included).

It is soul crushing to watch friends get excited, they have reached level 50 on Ninja and are ready to pew pew pew. They are super new to the game, reading their kills and growing more and more excited. As excitement builds I feel happier for telling them about FF14, I hear "Ohhh I finally unlocked kassatsu! This is gonna be soooooo darn fun to use with doton or katon during huge pulls, all the stuffs will melt!" Then they queue in and the tank pulls a single mob. One. Single. Mob. Seriously? They then proceed to keep engaging and chain pulling so her and her partner can never hide refresh mudras. Two new sprouts using trick attack in sequence with each other for the maximum uptime, getting excited to test new skills only for.. that. Then the healer cures themselves oom and kills them.

Imagine being that new player worried about your rotation and damage, playing your little heart out in a manner most precious only to constantly encounter that. Dying because the tank was waiting for the second coming of christ to invuln on dragoon and losing lance charge. Having to waste dragonfire drive on two mobs.. Or you are attempting to learn healer and the arcanist/red mage on your team keeps healing the tanks boo boos so you never learn the timing for deeps then heal at low health.

I know this may shock many within this community but those three other people standing in the portal? Those are real people not npcs. They are real people with jobs and families and better things to do than carry dead weight through content. They are trying to enjoy the game in their own way too. Wiping five times in world of darkness because big red eye look away no compute and neither does do not spin boss like a bayblade is not fun. Not on your first run and not on your fiftieth either.

That dead weight brings balance to the social elements of the game. Queue systems saves you time, but should have risks. If people don't want to carry others, than make your own groups or make friends with people who have the same mindset as you and form groups. Anything and everything should be fair game in queue systems because that balances the game out. Build a social network.

Teaching people who don't want to be teached is pointless and waste of time. People have the tools to build own groups, and make friends. Be social and do that. It counters the problems people have now.

[MiaShino]

That dead weight brings balance to the social elements of the game. Queue systems saves you time, but should have risks. If people don't want to carry others, than make your own groups or make friends with people who have the same mindset as you and form groups. Anything and everything should be fair game in queue systems because that balances the game out. Build a social network.

Teaching people who don't want to be teached is pointless and waste of time. People have the tools to build own groups, and make friends. Be social and do that. It counters the problems people have now.

Wat? What the heck does "bring balance to the social elements of the game" even mean? Dead weight forces people to interact? They should be doing that already no?

On that particular bit of.. something, they tried and so did I. They joined a free company that asked two sprouts at level 25 to run savage and farm birds. Ohhh also that getting gear was unimportant because they can just unsync the dungeon and get it that way.. Level 25 still doing sylph management to unsync dungeons for gear. Genius!

So we all made our own free companies but we umm, work? Our schedules do not always align so our options are only play when we are all on or do not use the duty finder because expecting basic levels of competence is too much. Also how does a 30 minute deeps queue save time again?

Why am I even bothering is the better question to be asking.. I said it once and shall say again, this community has issues. Off to go build a "social network" so we can play a fricken video game with semi-conscious people. I am not expecting everyone to be 100'th percentile here, I am asking to not uncombo your three button seven times in a row, not even say hello then yeet yourself out of the dungeon the moment the last boss dies. I am also venting not attempting to teach anyone anything. Just.. wow. I cannot even.

Common sense

How else can they farm memories while watching Netflix while their doggo plays the game for them then? Hmm?! Hmm!!!? You horrible monster, this is their play style choice. It is good manners to waste everyone's time here in NA.

[Wavaryen]

Wat? What the heck does "bring balance to the social elements of the game" even mean? Dead weight forces people to interact? They should be doing that already no?

On that particular bit of.. something, they tried and so did I. They joined a free company that asked two sprouts at level 25 to run savage and farm birds. Ohhh also that getting gear was unimportant because they can just unsync the dungeon and get it that way.. Level 25 still doing sylph management to unsync dungeons for gear. Genius!

So we all made our own free companies but we umm, work? Our schedules do not always align so our options are only play when we are all on or do not use the duty finder because expecting basic levels of competence is too much. Also how does a 30 minute deeps queue save time again?

Why am I even bothering is the better question to be asking.. I said it once and shall say again, this community has issues. Off to go build a "social network" so we can play a fricken video game with semi-conscious people. I am not expecting everyone to be 100'th percentile here, I am asking to not uncombo your three button seven times in a row, not even say hello then yeet yourself out of the dungeon the moment the last boss dies. I am also venting not attempting to teach anyone anything. Just.. wow. I cannot even.



How else can they farm memories while watching Netflix while their doggo plays the game for them then? Hmm?! Hmm!!!? You horrible monster, this is their play style choice. It is good manners to waste everyone's time here in NA.

It is simple really, Match Making system takes away from the social elements of MMOs. That does not mean they don't belong, but it is balance by having risk of the quality of players you can get. That is balanced. If match making was too good, it would discourage people from building a network of people they can depend on, because why would they need to if the quality of players was always high when match making? In the old days before match making. We still had jobs, and still able to build social network to do raids/dungeons balance it. I guess it is a lost art now.

Fascinating how this entire thread can be summarized in people defending "i refuse to learn" mentality and criticizing any idea that will force people to, you know, actually learn to read their tooltips at the very least.
Sounds like karens that refuse to wear masks

I criticizing people who want these people to learn how to play not for their own enjoyment. but for yourselves. The only reason why you all want players to get better, so that you can make the convenience of your match making have a higher chance for you to get a better group. It has nothing to do with said person enjoyment, and everything to do with your own. Hey, at least you can say the same about the other person. They play how they want running over your enjoyment right?

[MiaShino]

It is simple really, Match Making system takes away from the social elements of MMOs. That does not mean they don't belong, but it is balance by having risk of the quality of players you can get. That is balanced. If match making was too good, it would discourage people from building a network of people they can depend on, because why would they need to if the quality of players was always high when match making? In the old days before match making. We still had jobs, and still able to build social network to do raids/dungeons balance it. I guess it is a lost art now.

You actually made a good fricken point here! This is most true, though I missed most of that era my poor uncle laments those times of shouting in towns and building a party outside of a dungeon in WoW. I wish I was able to experience that because it sounds pretty interesting plus groups looking to have fun could keep away the, what is word, riffraff. The second part of this is not so good when you consider the JP datacenters use duty finder to regularly clear savage yet still form "networks" with each other. We find others we can "depend on" for companionship, fun, friendship, you know a relationship built on equal trades. I am not looking for friends for the sole purpose of farming clears out of them because that is selfish.

I criticizing people who want these people to learn how to play not for their own enjoyment. but for yourselves. The only reason why you all want players to get better, so that you can make the convenience of your match making have a higher chance for you to get a better group. It has nothing to do with said person enjoyment, and everything to do with your own. Hey, at least you can say the same about the other person. They play how they want running over your enjoyment right?

You started off strong then deflated like balloon in stack of needles. Unsure about others but I enjoy attempting to help someone improve so they can have more fun. I also try to give them smooth run so the whole team benefits. Perhaps it is Japanese in me? I do not seem to align with the way people think here at all.

Just gonna play less as I have been and as friends are already doing and let sleeping dogs lay where they will.

[Wavaryen]

You actually made a good fricken point here! This is most true, though I missed most of that era my poor uncle laments those times of shouting in towns and building a party outside of a dungeon in WoW. I wish I was able to experience that because it sounds pretty interesting plus groups looking to have fun could keep away the, what is word, riffraff. The second part of this is not so good when you consider the JP datacenters use duty finder to regularly clear savage yet still form "networks" with each other. We find others we can "depend on" for companionship, fun, friendship, you know a relationship built on equal trades. I am not looking for friends for the sole purpose of farming clears out of them because that is selfish.



You started off strong then deflated like balloon in stack of needles. Unsure about others but I enjoy attempting to help someone improve so they can have more fun. I also try to give them smooth run so the whole team benefits. Perhaps it is Japanese in me? I do not seem to align with the way people think here at all.

Just gonna play less as I have been and as friends are already doing and let sleeping dogs lay where they will.

I'm sorry I am not perfect! But I still stand by what I say. That people only want players to be better so they don't got to deal with bad groups through match making.


I would say the same to the other side as well. Both sides are willing to run over each other for own enjoyment. This is my own rule I go by.


If I do a match making system, and let the game build my own group. I don't have a right to tell others how to play. Now if that group wants to vote said person out, because we can't do the content. I would do so. However, it is not my place to teach others, or to judge others because I am using the tools in the game to make a group for me.


Now if I was joining a premade that had a set rules and standards. By all means, call someone out for not meeting said standards that you design group for.


That is just my own personal feelings, and don't expect others to follow or even agree.

[Rinhi]

Wat? What the heck does "bring balance to the social elements of the game" even mean? Dead weight forces people to interact? They should be doing that already no?

a quick fyi: he's saying it because his wife is actively and knowingly not using half (most?) of her abilities because "she doesn't like the look of them" and how people using DF should be expected to run and carry those kind of players

I'm reasonably sure that the request being discussed is referring to DF runs and the like where you don't really have control over your party members. People who are receptive to improvement aren't who the topic was created for and the people who need the improvement and refuse to change aren't likely going to be lured in by even stricter optional runs even if you dangle some tasty carrots in front of them. They're just trying to pass, not make deans list.

Having optional objective rewards sounds fun and like something to add "content" using existing resources, but wouldn't affect the problem population this topic is about.

exactly! and that's why some of those ideas, as good as they are on paper, would be useless in practice because it's a mentality thing and not a reward thing
truth to be told, I don't even think players would have an issue with underperforming players THAT much (unless it's like, really noticeable) if those players, at least in my experience, wouldn't also be the ones who are being toxic to the rest of the party/raid when people offer help or tips - or even just asking if they want any

[Wavaryen]

a quick fyi: he's saying it because his wife is actively and knowingly not using half (most?) of her abilities because "she doesn't like the look of them" and how people using DF should be expected to run and carry those kind of players

Oh my wife has got better at her own pace. Now she does more and prob better than you now
But even if she did not. I still would not care, as she plays how she wants and you are right. DF is made for her and players like her. If you don't want to deal with her. Get good with social skills and build a social network.

[Rinhi]

Oh my wife has got better at her own pace. Now she does more and prob better than you now
But even if she did not. I still would not care, as she plays how she wants and you are right. DF is made for her and players like her. If you don't want to deal with her. Get good with social skills and build a social network.

what's with the unneeded toxicity? I was just making a factual statement from your wife's and your own posts about a similar topic?
I'm glad she got better - and is better at the game than me now! good job!
I'm already in an active FC, thank you for the invitation to help, though!

[Wavaryen]

what's with the unneeded toxicity? I was just making a factual statement from your wife's and your own posts about a similar topic?
I'm glad she got better - and is better at the game than me now! good job!
I'm already in an active FC, thank you for the invitation to help, though!

I'm sorry, I was not meaning it to be toxic? I thought the smile face at the end of that sentence showed that. I was mostly just confirming what you are saying is true and backing your statement up. It is 5:30 am. So if my wording was bad. Forgive me.

[Faafetai]

Unfortunately, the 'system' put in place to teach people basic things in Final Fantasy 14 is 'suppose' to be the novice network and mentors.

This being mentioned, most know this system is not good.

There is nothing in the requirements of being said mentor that would indicate someone actually knows how to play the game. The people I have come in contact with were all similar, at the least on my data center, with the exception of some actually good mentors. This system is just not good. I know people wish to speak with one another, and there is a huge social aspect to this entire thing. On the surface it was a good idea, but not everyone learns the same way, some do not care to learn, and on the other end of the coin the people teaching do not know how to teach, or do not actually know anything and are now going on to com beg in their bikini's so they can get their "oooo wooo totes kawaii mount pwease"

At the very start of my journey into FF14, I wished for advice, some help, and wished to learn things. I would say "I was new", "This is my first time here", "I am new to so and so class" or "I am new to tanking in this game, be gentle". Now the advice always given was "Aoe", "Use your super easy to learn (at least to me) three button rotation", "I'm a healer main you can not cleanse 'sludge'", or even "you can not use certain skills you can use on Trial bosses". I began to learn early on that the 'mentors', 'healer mains', 'tank mains', and people with multiple level 80 classes leveled were not going to help me learn anything.

I understand now that a crown and all of your classes leveled means nothing at all, and I was naive to even think someone with those things could actually teach, or would actually give good advice.

I am new to THIS game, I am not a brain dead idiot, at least I do not believe I am, but I am also not pompus and think I could never be wrong about things, even about being a brain dead idiot. Maybe I truly am, I am secretly in a coma, and this is my purgatory as punishment for being some dictator of futures past.

Coming at this thread from the perspective of someone wishing to learn appose to someone who is staunchly appose to learning and wishes to 'play their way' in a perfect synchronicity with the burger king crowns, ironically.

I am unsure what you feasibly could do for those who wish to play farmville, and watch netflix while they are waiting for their memories within Syrcus Tower for the seventh week in a row placing their cryplurker gear on at the start of the duty. I would like people who are actually willing to play this game to be able to play with others who also wish to play this game other than party finder, discords, clicky fc's who trick you into joining so you can boost their fc levels/points via 'teaching' you how to craft for actions people will never activate.

For those who wish to learn, having content from ARR fixed or tweaked to be similar to some of the newer content would be a good start. If I had an amazing fight like I had within the introduction to Bozja at the beginning I would have learned even faster how things were going to be in the future. A trust system that isn't super buggy like the squads in the grand company would be nice. I am use to older games, so all of these things helped me, but I could really understand these things just kind of not helping at all.

The actual class quests not being so weird, like the scholar quest you have to keep clicking to npcs and cleansing them so you do not fail the duty. Maybe put those people in your party. All the way at the start don't tell me to just dps as the healer let me do both and have the system not be clunky. Fix the older prompts that still say to 'Tank with your Carbuncle' and 'Tank with Titan-egi' would be a small minor change. I know they most likely will not fix any of these things, but I do know for a fact I did not learn how to tank via my numerous times going out to fight Opo-opos.

The way I have been learning honestly is just going into content, and testing things out with my partner. Nothing teaches you better than to go through all of the phases of every boss without it dying in two seconds because you have a full party. Trying things out with minimum ilvl and actually having the time to learn things maybe die a few times and learn from mistakes that happen. I was honestly devastated when I got to Shadowbringer, and I couldn't go through and practice with my partner, but could only go through via the 'single player co op experience'.

Sorry for the long post. TL;DR: Maybe fix some of the older job quests so they are up to date, allow for some system to test mentors instead of it being commend based, and make the gear bigger in the duty list so people know unsyncing is a thing and you can go in to dungeons and practice with someone. Oh! and maybe scale the mobs in those dungeons if you are solo and have no friends that is not just 'the squad'. By scale I mean allow for the dungeon to be challenging but not unfair, not 'scale' and make everything a one shot.

Also, I know a ton of people will lose their minds about this, but I kind of wish to know what killed me. The only time I can find this out is going through numerous logs. I know having a outside tool makes people weird, but at least give us the basic info, the battle logs are horrible.