Please implement something to teach players how to play

[Colt47]

They did include them, just it's up to people to actually use them and they haven't been updated since forever. Guildhests were the first ones, the second attempt was the mentor system (which usually doesn't work that well), third is class quests, fourth is target dummies and just practicing a lot.

In the end if someone doesn't want to get better, they aren't going to get better. Humanity is forever the expert at procrastinating if all these years of MMOs and multiplayer games has taught me anything.

[TaleraRistain]

Back in the day if you so much as suggested a druid could dps or a paladin tank in WoW you got called a heathen. I think for a lot of players there's this ingrained sense of how things are that has to be unlearned for FF14

It's not that the classes didn't have a toolkit to allow dps, but players set an expectation early on. Plus some of these games the content required healers to spend most of their time healing and any attempts to DPS could lead to a wipe.

It's a really hard mindset to shake off.

It was a situation where classes didn't have a toolkit for dps in EQ. My DoT and direct damage as an enchanter was pretty much pointless. I didn't even use them charm soloing. That's because my kit revolved around support. I was keeping the group hasted, keeping up mana regen, slowing the mob we were focused on, and making these 7 mobs drool on themselves while I mind-controlled an 8th into fighting for us. If I felt froggy, I got my pet Shiny Bob out and let him do his pitiful damage on the focused mob. The game was designed with the idea that certain classes kept to specific roles. We could work outside the box sometimes, like the night a party couldn't find a tank so we let a troll shaman kite mobs around in a circle while our rangers and mages plunked away and I kept things slowed, but it was incredibly slow going because that group was missing a key role that made normal camping groups work. So, yes, in early MMO times it was a case where tank and support classes didn't have the tools for dps because the game expected they would fulfill a certain role and made that role necessary.

If XIV required the same amount of support to a party and had dps skills that were less effective, then we'd see a game design that supported a similar mentality. The difference is that XIV does provide an adequate toolkit for dps and fights aren't designed in such a way that they expect certain classes will always be busy with certain roles. It's a shame, really. I rather enjoyed early in this game when we still did things like Sleep/Repose the big guy in the second Brayflox fight, because the team needed to focus the little guy down. And you would bring slightly different things to the table depending on which other classes you had leveled up to get cross class skills from. But that's a place where player expectation bit us on the ass, ie every healer *must* level a THM for Swiftcast. I'd have loved if our choice as healers to dps really was a balancing act but it's turned into just a default we do because the game doesn't make us responsible for anything else and doesn't even make healing something we always need to be doing.

[Jemi]

I really think that intermediate and expert-level equivalents of the Hall of the Novice would be great additions to the game.

It's no secret that this game attracts many players who have never played an MMO before — myself included. FFXIV is my first and only MMO to date. I personally think that harder versions of the Hall of the Novice would've benefited me greatly when I was a sprout, and I imagine it would be the same for others who are new to the MMO genre.

[Colt47]

I really think that intermediate and expert-level equivalents of the Hall of the Novice would be great additions to the game.

It's no secret that this game attracts many players who have never played an MMO before — myself included. FFXIV is my first and only MMO to date. I personally think that harder versions of the Hall of the Novice would've benefited me greatly when I was a sprout, and I imagine it would be the same for others who are new to the MMO genre.

Yeah but really the jobs going up 1-69 are fairly easy to understand. They don't usually layer complexity on until level 70+, and even then if you run the job enough on the low end, those extras they throw onto it aren't so bad to manage.

Now Black Mage on the other hand... That is one job that has it's rotation change multiple times across the leveling spectrum and that is the BIG reason I just outright stopped playing the job.

[Seera1024]

That does not really work, then you have people crying the game is too hard (reason they do not even try to get better). Hence why they added easy and very easy modes when those missions are already way way way too easy even on normal. You literally have to intentionally force yourself to lose even on normal.
But if you mention it, you are toxic elitist. The truth is that these people only care for themselves and have no regards if the group around them feel uncomfortable. They are the vocal so they are being listened aswell

That's not the case for everyone at every stage of their journey.

I know there were some solo duties that I failed and not for lack of trying to play my best when I leveling up my first class - Black Mage. I've never been an ice mage and I AoE when appropriate and use the appropriate Fire and Blizzard spells.

I do however feel that it should only open up Easy after failing on Normal and you have to fail on Easy to get Very Easy to open up.

Have had fewer of those instances on an alt that I've leveling up on a different class so not sure if due to me being better at the game or if I'm just better at my alt class than the main class.

[Omedon]

At the end of the day, SQueenix wants... needs as many people as possible playing FFXIV that could potentially enjoy themselves here within the style of game that it is. That means "good enough is good enough" will be true in many cases, and that bar will of course be lower than those that demand "skilled PUGs" for their randomized groups. If you want a group of like commitment to excellence, you can form it yourself. Meanwhile, approachability is king, and approachability can and will be "exploited" by those that "could do better" but... I mean why? Seriously, I'm one of those players, and I find FFXIV more automatically, gallingly "skill gated" in the SOLO MSQ! It asks me to play clases I'll never have any interest in and, yes, I make it past those checkpoints, but it's with disdain and "I shouldn't have had to do that," but I chalk it up to the impression I'm given time and again by threads like THIS VERY ONE: There are players that can only be part of the renowned welcome wagon of FFXIV only because the game is doing the gatekeeping for them.

Demanding a higher shelf for the core of the game will only lenghten queue times as people leave because the path of least resistance is gone, because SURPRISE: Many of us don't play games like this to "have resistance" to our fun.

There must always be an approachable path that, yes, leads to people being able to try your upper end content. If you don't want to group with the people that don't "belong in your group of excellence:" Form your own group. Me, I avoid the entire situation by leveling via DDs, Squads and Trusts, and from now on I will do all MSQ dungeons with trusts, and you will literally only see me in the ONE trial run I need when the story necessitates it... and I contend that there needs to be an NPC group option for that as well.

I will never join a savage group because they don't offer anything I need or want. My glamor is done basically forever, and power beyond what's needed for the next trust-enabled story dungeon is pointless to me as I play the game. That's my playstyle, and so long as it's supported, FFXIV will get money from me until they stop supporting me. Good enough is good enough, and I've reached good enough, and it's clearly not good enough for the performance obsessed... so be glad I have trusts and I'll see you for the trial carry!

[Jemi]

Yeah but really the jobs going up 1-69 are fairly easy to understand. They don't usually layer complexity on until level 70+, and even then if you run the job enough on the low end, those extras they throw onto it aren't so bad to manage.

Now Black Mage on the other hand... That is one job that has it's rotation change multiple times across the leveling spectrum and that is the BIG reason I just outright stopped playing the job.

Since Endwalker will bring us to level 90, there's no reason why an Intermediate Hall couldn't be lvl 70, and an Expert Hall at lvl 90.

[MsMisato]

I think that the best and most fair solution would be to have dungeons, trials, raids, etc. have an individual minimum DPS objective. If you fail to meet that objective you are not able to roll for loot or it doesn't count for quest completition.

Or add time objectives to dungeons, example finish within 20 minutes and you get bonus gil/exp/items, finish within 21-30 minutes and you get normal exp/gil/items, take more than 30 minutes and you don't get rewards.

will never happen with dps checks on an individual level especially the quest completion not being marked, they would loose to many subs at that point and its a business first and foremost. its about the money. Also, unfortunately, the casual player's far outweigh the ones that learn the job and play it to the fullest but that's why we have ultimates, savages, and such but even then those turn into carrying players.

[Colt47]

Since Endwalker will bring us to level 90, there's no reason why an Intermediate Hall couldn't be lvl 70, and an Expert Hall at lvl 90.

Hey as long as people use them there's probably nothing wrong. I'm just thinking that unless they literally shove people into the tutorials they might just get ignored completely.

[kaynide]

At the end of the day, SQueenix wants... needs as many people as possible playing FFXIV that could potentially enjoy themselves here within the style of game that it is. That means "good enough is good enough" will be true in many cases, and that bar will of course be lower than those that demand "skilled PUGs" for their randomized groups.

I think this is the key point that some people just don’t get. Some people see this game that needs to be more demanding of skill or harder to challenge players. The problem here is to the devs, this is “Disneyland Online”. You hang out with friends, you wait in line to go down the same path everyone else does to see the pirates..or haunted mansion..or abandoned mines. (I expect space mountain next!). Pepper in some minis you can pick up at the souvenir store and you’re set.

That is all. This is a virtual theme park. Priority is keeping the vast majority of guests satisfied and wanting to come back. That’s it.