Please implement something to teach players how to play

[Pirana1]

just did a 50 dungeon with a synced 72 blm. tank pulled large groups and this BLM sat there and spammed fire 1.
1. Did this person not notice the fire 3 symbol glowing when it procs
2. At level 72 did this person not ever notice that Fire 2 ever existed.
and of course
3. does this person even care.

Most of these people fall under category 3 and explaining anything is a waste of time, the game is simple and I think enough resources have already been spent on new people, people do need to help themselves and no in game training hall is going to magically make someone good. Its up to people to practice rotations in a static environment via a dummy then practice in real game situations(I don't knock anyone making mistakes in there rotation, hell its a breeze of fresh air when you can tell someone is at least trying) For the people who try and its a job I have a lot of experience in I have sent polite messages afterwards offering some help if they want it some have gladly taken it, some have said no thanks there still trying, some don't respond but that's fine.

However you do get people like the BLM I had and basically got 2 choices kick or get through it because people like that won't listen and will likely get angry if you tried to explain anything. There is a difference between casual play and I just want people to put up with me not wanting to actually play this game but I want gear.(still not sure why people like that play the game, some people argue that there just in it for the story but why pay a sub and waste there money when they can watch story videos on youtube) Either way to each there own just wish they understand that there is 3 other people that depend on them and in other cases 7 people.

Similar situation earlier this week. White Mage refused to use Cure 2 no matter how many times the tank asked. Cure 1 is a situational heal, but it should never be used as the norm. After wiping twice, we removed the WHM and found a competent healer. Problem solved.

All some are asking is that you read your tooltips and do some research regarding your class. I've only been playing this mmo for roughly two months now, and once I moved past the ARR content and realized mechanics actually matter on boss fights, I did plenty of research on Youtube, notably the following: https://www.youtube.com/user/MTQcapture and The Balance Discord for class rotations. The problem that I'm seeing is that, as mentioned a few posts above, is that this is only a hobby to some, which is fine, play your way, but don't queue up expecting a carry from others that have put the work in, when you refuse to, or it's only a hobby. That's what solo play is for.

[Shurrikhan]

Not even remotely true. My friend got all kinds of shit in EverQuest on his dwarven cleric because he would put Yaulp on himself and go up to hit things. You were there to heal and shield and gods help you if you did anything else.

EverQuest is not the first, and that has more to do with spell schools, ability balance, and, above all, little patience for people to learn how to juggle their spells due to just how punishing a wipe would be.

But let me guess, they also gave him shit over using Hammer of Wrath/Striking/etc. on undead and before one's party has access yet to enchanted weapons, or Holy Might/Aweflash/etc when the stun could prevent more damage than Healing/Sincere Remedy/etc., respectively, could heal? Told him he should never use Blessing of Piety or the like because it costs too much mana that should be reserved for spamming , even when he had plenty?

...They were being selfishly reductive, likely to the disbenefit of the run, on the off-chance their Cleric hadn't yet learned to juggle their skills appropriately. But, that's what happens when literally everything is slow af -- as any actual failure, above all else, wastes even more inordinate amounts of time. That, however, has little bearing on design since.

What you're describing has at least as much to do, in core RPG terms, with the tendency to Rest after every fight on the off-chance you might need your fifth Minor Healing charge as it does actual intended design on classes capable of healing. It's a matter of (excessive) caution, over taking the time and chances to become, ultimately, more efficient. Cleric was a flex support. Reducing it to a healer hardly seems "intended" if it thereby wastes 3/4s of the kit.

[SniperCT]

Not even remotely true. My friend got all kinds of shit in EverQuest on his dwarven cleric because he would put Yaulp on himself and go up to hit things. You were there to heal and shield and gods help you if you did anything else.

Back in the day if you so much as suggested a druid could dps or a paladin tank in WoW you got called a heathen. I think for a lot of players there's this ingrained sense of how things are that has to be unlearned for FF14

It's not that the classes didn't have a toolkit to allow dps, but players set an expectation early on. Plus some of these games the content required healers to spend most of their time healing and any attempts to DPS could lead to a wipe.

It's a really hard mindset to shake off.

[MrPresident]

Gonna hard disagree.

That guy playing an hour a week and clearing ultimate is just more efficient with his time.

This is a hobby.

Anyone that doesn't take hobbies seriously enough to want to get decent at them should maybe find something else. It just boggles my mind. How can anyone not want to be good at things they enjoy?

And yes, I know folks that raid log. *Shrugs* i don't call quality of content the differing factor here.

All we end up with in the end is people crying they can't get PF groups or they got kicked or whatever and it's solely because they can't be bothered to take a hobby seriously enough to not be a hinderance.

I just do NOT understand it.

A big issue is that some people genuinely don’t realise they’re not good at it due to no prompting or “punishment” from the game for doing so. If I play a single player game and do something wrong there will be some form of punishment or consequence; dying, restarting, game over, etc. In FFXIV if you’re bad and die you’ll just be dragged through by 3/7 other people on almost all the content.

[Lunalepsy]

Title. (and no, the smiths outdated tutorial doesn't count)

I'm getting sick of running dungeons, trials, etc. whatever the hell content, and people just don't have a clue.

The usual suspects are out:

- Healer who stands still, doesn't deal damage, cant even keep up with healing
- DPS who single targets mobs when you have like the entire dungeon on you
- Tanks who just sit there and pull 1 group at a time
- People at max level who have no damn idea how to play their class whatsoever (example: Fire 1 Mage at level 80.)

What the hell is going on?

I've been feeling like I'm some crazy elitist just because I have an expectation that you have like an iota of competence.

IDK, detract me. Thanks.

Also, Im not going to bother trying to teach people things in game. Been there, done that. You get screamed at.

TO clarify: I'm mainly concerned about level 70-80 characters having these issues.

That's why the novice network exists.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Nope. Relatively new phenomenon in MMOs, and an atrocity.

And a reason your DPS queues get longer.

Quite the opposite, actually.
Healers are more scarce in queues because plenty of older, veteran healers went hiatus from maining a healer from having their job dumbed down, hard. Where do they go to? Either tanks—which also suffers a similar but not as terrible predicament, or DPS which are still fun to play around & what most of them had gone to nowadays.

Why would people considers [1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1] and pressing 1-3 extra button before going back to [1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1] for another 20s or longer hard is quite mind boggling to me, honestly.

[Elkanah]

Like I said the problem here is that if someone has not learned their basic class, or functionality by Level 66, for example. Then they aren't going to magically learn this within that dungeon.

Job potions are also a thing people buy. I've talked to many players while in df who bought one with all the MSQ skips to get to Shb, and half of their skills they don't or never used (let alone bothered reading them anyways). So this seems like a moot point if by 80 they still don't know or understand anything at all about the class in general.

[TaleraRistain]

EverQuest is not the first, and that has more to do with spell schools, ability balance, and, above all, little patience for people to learn how to juggle their spells due to just how punishing a wipe would be.

But let me guess, they also gave him shit over using Hammer of Wrath/Striking/etc. on undead and before one's party has access yet to enchanted weapons, or Holy Might/Aweflash/etc when the stun could prevent more damage than Healing/Sincere Remedy/etc., respectively, could heal? Told him he should never use Blessing of Piety or the like because it costs too much mana that should be reserved for spamming , even when he had plenty?

...They were being selfishly reductive, likely to the disbenefit of the run, on the off-chance their Cleric hadn't yet learned to juggle their skills appropriately. But, that's what happens when literally everything is slow af -- as any actual failure, above all else, wastes even more inordinate amounts of time. That, however, has little bearing on design since.

What you're describing has at least as much to do, in core RPG terms, with the tendency to Rest after every fight on the off-chance you might need your fifth Minor Healing charge as it does actual intended design on classes capable of healing. It's a matter of (excessive) caution, over taking the time and chances to become, ultimately, more efficient. Cleric was a flex support. Reducing it to a healer hardly seems "intended" if it thereby wastes 3/4s of the kit.

EQ had a lot more set in stone roles. When we were raiding, clerics had a channel where they coordinated their chain heals. Enchanters like me had a channel where we coordinated our mezzes. I kept the haste and the mana regen going otherwise because dropping my pitiful DoT or doing my DD on anything really was a waste of mana because the devs didn't design us with high damage in mind. Same with my cleric friend. He did that because he was a dwarf and wanted to behave like a Tolkien dwarf, not because the design made it more than slapping the mob. The actual direct damage classes handled whittling everything down. I quit after Depths, so maybe things changed up a bit after that point.

This was also the case in early WoW and early EQII though since everyone was supposed to be able to solo the solo content it wasn't as rigid until you got into more grouping content. And in WoW it could depend on your build. But to claim this the idea of set roles was never the norm is not true. When a true support role was still a thing, it was very much heavily baked into game design.

[Shurrikhan]

But to claim this the idea of set roles was never the norm is not true.

I never made that claim. I only said that there was no point at which having the capacity for healing was wholly mutually exclusive with all other actions or capacities.

In EQII, I dealt damage in downtime. In WoW, I dealt damage in downtime. In NWN, I dealt damage in downtime. Etc., etc.

At no point did dealing damage when there was nothing better to do seem contradictory or unintuitive just because of my being a healer, and in most cases there were even situations by which it was clearly worth timing healing around opportunities for other means of beneficial throughput.

[Jin-]

To the above, is the solution just to make the game more challenging then?

I had already reached the same conclusion before I posted; its up to people to have a want to get better for them to get better.

I really don't like that conclusion though. There has to be SOMETHING to shift the paradigm from bare minimum wins the day.

That does not really work, then you have people crying the game is too hard (reason they do not even try to get better). Hence why they added easy and very easy modes when those missions are already way way way too easy even on normal. You literally have to intentionally force yourself to lose even on normal.
But if you mention it, you are toxic elitist. The truth is that these people only care for themselves and have no regards if the group around them feel uncomfortable. They are the vocal so they are being listened aswell