Please implement something to teach players how to play

[Dragonblanco]

@all the people saying "maybe tank/healer is new" please reread the OP and make sure you understand what he is saying. He is talking about level 70-80 dungeons. No one is new at that point.

Umm, to be fair...you *can* boost to 70. I actually saw a new player who literally did just that, as they wanted to rush into content. They thought that since they were "pros" in WoW that it would be very simple to just boost and be an expert here. lol.

Granted, those are out of the ordinary situations but just wanted to mention for arguments sake. Or could look at me. I did WHM to 74 or so but had been way past MSQ,. so I stopped and didn't want to lv something from scratch. So I did boost warrior from like lv 30-70 and started playing it. Originally lv 70 content felt simple and me OP compared to the 30 content where I didn't have a lot of the mitigation skills and self heals. But then as I got more to 74 and all, I've been a little scared to go in. I think what did it for me was a couple douchebag groups and then another one where I was the one who screwed up on mechanics. A lot of content was kind of a joke but they did increase the difficulty in this newest expansion in regards to mechanics hitting more frequently and all. Once I hit that bit of tankxiety, I boosted Astrologian and made it my main. Been using it quite often and pretty darn good with it.

Anyway, long story just to say it happens but hopefully not frequently.

[Krotoan]

Every single idea I saw the OP "approve" of would breed runs where "bad" players would be pressure to perform to a standard or either be punished with no clear, or punished with less loot."Good" players also being punished if they happened to be along with "bad" players. Encouraging "good" players to screen people and kick "bad" players.


Why all those quotes? Because at the end of the day this is against the design of the entire game. Like it or not the main story is meant to be progressed by anyone who wants to play the game. Casual to hardcore. You want optimal play? We got extremes and ultimates, as evidenced by their clear rates they are not for everyone. I don't really care if people will say "but they're so easy"... they are apparently not easy for everyone and that's the point. They have unique rewards, time limits, damage checks, all these things that were mentioned and why? Because they are meant for the people who have "standards" and are going for that level of play.


Most roulettes have rewards because they're for filling instances for the clears and to keep old content rolling. Don't like doing runs with random factors? Don't queue them. Make your own parties for "optimal" clears. Yeah it sucks that some people want to be carried through the whole game, but in my opinion I'd rather have lazy people than hostile dictator parties.


I have yet to see one of these solutions that doesn't create an environment that inspires contention between players.

[TaleraRistain]

2. Player gets kicked from the dungeon by others who want to go faster - meaning the player doesn't get the ability to learn. Maybe the next group will be able to carry them past that part without any trouble.

This one especially. I can't name the number of times where I've been in a party where everyone has at least cleared (so no noob message), we have issues, I offer help and we work things out, and I hear "Thank you! No one ever explained that before!"

There are so many people who complain about "the bads" but they don't bother to do anything to help them. And they hide behind the "We can't tell them anything, we'll get reported!" excuse, but you know what? I've been helping people for 7 years now and I haven't gone to the gaol a single time. I just actually try to help people and come from a position of sharing knowledge, not acting like I know better than them. And people are very receptive when the hand someone is reaching out is open and accepting instead of a fist ready to beat them down.

[Drakonic]

Then the game needs to do more to keep the good players around. Give players that clear current Raid tier or Ultimate 3 months of free gameplay. Or give them access to a special ward in housing areas where all houses are mansions but cheaper to get so long as you have the corresponding title to buy them.

Or just make 3 Ultimates every expansion instead of these incentives.

[SpiralMask]

small teeny tiny nitpick to OP: some classes dont actually get an aoe skill until level ~30 (such as MNK/SAM getting their first at 26, NIN at 30 (on mudra cooldown)/it's first aoe GCD death blossom at 38, SMN at 30 with bane (moderate cooldown)/35 for energy siphon (moderate cooldown)/and 40 for outburst--their first aoe GCD, DRG not getting it's first aoe skill until 40 in doom spike), so pulling the whole dungeon and getting mad for them single-targetting miiiight be on you. won't comment on the rest (such as the 70-80's in your clarification, and on an alt of yours?) tho.

[kaynide]

I've gotten 1 class up to lvl.80, BLM, and I found it interesting that for the first few layers of learning the basic rotation that there was a decent amount of in-game info provided to get the rotation down
- However, upon getting into 2nd and especially 3rd tier abilities, namely lvls 60-80, the information provided dropped off dramatically
- It got to a point where I had to spend a sizable chunk of time in-game, reviewing ability tool tips and experimenting with abilities to really get a feel for them
- And even then, I still wound up needing to go to outside 3rd party sites to really learn more of the scope of the abilities and how to really min/max rotations in various scenarios

Just to add to this, I’ve done all jobs to 80, and of them I felt BLM is def the most…wonky… of the jobs. Most of the jobs as they level don’t change too much in rotation or just add a few extra gimmicks. BLM’s entire rotation changes once you go from Fire 3 to using Flare correctly, then it changes again when you start using Enochian…so while not hard, there is certainly a little bit more readjusting as you lose access to parts of your rotation with sync’d content.

[Shurrikhan]

It's not a request if a kick is the alternative for rejecting that request.

It is the only alternative by which 3 out of 4 players are not compelled to play the style of the 1 of 4. That does not mean the kick must occur. It only means that it's utter bull to call the alternative, by which the 1 in 4 rules by default, not a compelled play style.

To clarify, let's take a look at the actual rule: "Expressions that compel a playing style."

Then we're left with the old "Since only communication is punishable, just kick immediately to ensure there is no context from which intent may be inferred, since blanket reasons for a kick (including "Differing Playstyles) are always protected." Great.

Of the above two polite statements, the first comes closer to being an expression that compels a play style as it is telling others what to do while the second is a personal statement.

Equally:
"Myself and the remainder of the party apart from you want X."
"That's nice but I want Y and I have control by default so... /shrug."

So which is more thoroughly compelling one's play style upon others?

No, I get it. The second is protected on a technicality and asking for the odd man out not to force their play style on others is against the ToA. I get that. But that's also complete rubbish.

[Sadge]

Some people play this game casually, hate to break it to you. Not everyone is going to be up to the same speed as you with the game.

casual =/= bad at the game

[Hyrist]

I'll be blunt. I've heard this argument my entire tenure in the game and the answer is the same - they're not going to alienate players by *forcing* players to play to your standard.

If they're clearing content, they're making the bar. There's harder content out there if you want to avoid them, stick to doing that content or stick to your static, if you have one. If you're doing roulettes - you roll the dice. Personally - I'm more concerned with poor attitudes than poor performances - and when I want to avoid both (And/or the DPS queue timer) I leveled up my trusts. I'll take the added dungeon time to avoid the stress when I don't feel like it. On that point - as long as Trusts exist, you're never going to be able to enforce any sort of bar to get people to pass in order to play this game. It may be time to make peace with that.

Content *has* gotten progressively more involved, anyone who's watching the new spike of WoW Streamers play the game can attest to that. And we still have people complaining about the typical pet peeves.

Honestly, there are exceptions to a lot of those complaints and more to be had. A tank that doesn't trust a group or isn't feeling like stressing themselves out will pull slower. A healer not confident in their ability to heal yet will not dps. And those two are the only ones who can judge when they're ready to push themselves. In dungeon content, who cares? If you're that concerned - party with friends and don't rely on randoms who won't always be on par.

Roulette Content as about as casual as you get in this game, so stressing out over it sounds more like a personal problem than a game problem. There are other ways of making in-game currency that don't involve other random people. It may be more worth your while to use them. I do, and I've learned to be much less stressed and judgmental for doing so.

Just be friendly and encourage players to push towards excellence as politely as you can, and learn a little patience on your own end. Use the alternatives available to you if you're not in the mood to tolerate it. I promise you it'll serve you well.

[Casti_EL]

Personally I think they should do away with the lvl 70 boosts and instead sell a fantasia-styled potion that allows you to instantly jump 5 levels or something (obviously at a cheaper price than the boost). That way you could still level at a decent pace to experience new abilities whilst skipping over some of the more boring bits of levelling (i.e. specific dungeon queuing on dps alts for levelling). FYI, I have used a boost on one of my dps after I hit around 30-40 due to bordem/burnout with levelling and I do regret it as I'm instantly level 70 with no clue about proper rotation or nuances of the job (watching videos online to learn before taking it into any group content), but the thought of constantly queuing for dungeons with a potential 10-30 minute each time to get from 40-70 wait was just making me hate the role.

Just be friendly and encourage players to push towards excellence as politely as you can, and learn a little patience on your own end. Use the alternatives available to you if you're not in the mood to tolerate it. I promise you it'll serve you well.

<-- this! The game is designed around community and teamwork, lot of players will appreciate you taking a bit of time to help them. Granted, not all will and you will get some that think they are better than you/don't need your advice because they were part of the top guild/group/clan in <insert game here> but unfortunately, that's life - you can't help everyone, but the majority of people will appreciate it and listen providing you are polite and helpful about it).

Plus, not everyone is capable of playing at the same skill level, some may have learning disorders or struggle with certain mechanics (I lose to the "Maths" boss mechanic every time because I struggle to process numbers/maths quickly), others may love their role but be really nervous about it (me with Tanks - love the classes and lore, pretty much anxiety melt-down when tanking in group situations), or there could be other aspects (not avoiding AoE's due to a high ping or hardware performance issues).