Please implement something to teach players how to play

[lezard21]

@all the people saying "maybe tank/healer is new" please reread the OP and make sure you understand what he is saying. He is talking about level 70-80 dungeons. No one is new at that point.

[Shalan]

Honestly, I think an Intermediate Hall + Expert Hall would cover this.
You do the Novice hall to get a very base idea of what you should do. Tanks turn on stance, get mobs, healers heal & sometimes damage when they can, dps just doing dps stuff (I don't quite remember this one lmao)
Intermediate & Expert just compound on it.
I can already picture some scenarios for BLM. Could go over the use case of Aetherial Manipulation + Between the lines to have you slide to an NPC to dodge an aoe, then slide back to dodge another for example. This would require some effort on the devs part, but I think it'd be beneficial.

Much as I agree and want such a hall, I don't think it's going to happen. This is a reply from Mr.Happy to a commenter on one of his interviews with YoshiP, asking him if he could ask Yoshi about a revamped Hall like you're asking about.



I honestly think the devs are making a serious mistake here and that something should be done to help the playerbase more, but I also think that's not going to happen unless something major happens to change things.

[Kaylal]

excuse me what? you mean not progressing as fast as you want.... because last I checked, finishing the run is progressing. amount pulled depends on playstyle, so its your view that both healer and tank should be stressed because they arent going fast enough for you?

You're so right. This is a perfect example of a long-term FF14 player who knows the system inside out, and considers any other playstyle "wrong". Which, if nothing else, is a selfish attitude. As a player who has just transitioned from WoW, the tank charging about gathering everything in sight is horrifying. That's how you wipe! Then there's the other element; WHY are you in such a rush?? So you can go do other stuff and get more mad lootz?? OK, that's what tickles your fancy and that's fine...but it's not what I'm after. I'm after the story. After all, I never intend to come back to this dungeon because I *don't* like group content. And that's MY playstyle...

Honestly, this is the one factor that may force me to go back to WoW; toxic and grindy, and stupid as it is. There, I don't have to do dungeons if I don't want to. I'm not going to get the best loot and that's fine; I don't need it for open world content. But in FF14 if I want to advance the story, I have no choice; I HAVE to do group content. I have a level 36 character at the moment who hasn't been contacted by a Grand Company...whatever that is, who can't get a mount, who has no idea where to go to see more of the main story and I think I've figured out that it's because I haven't done any dungeons beyond Tam-Tara (although nowhere is that stated in exactly those words...not in any doco, website, youtube video, tutorial or anywhere else). And that makes me very uncomfortable for exactly the expectations expressed by some in this thread. "You're not doing it right!" I don't want to bother other people by not playing they way they expect me to. Nor do I want to have to rely on others to play through the game; I just want to be left alone.

Kes13a is correct; the only way to NOT do any content correctly is if you wipe and don't complete it, and hopefully if that happens all the players learn something. There's an element of finishing it in a reasonable amount of time as well, I will concede that. But if we finish in 20 minutes instead of 15, what does it really matter?? This is a game, for goodness sake, and one that gives nothing tangible. It's just us First World people wasting time for our pleasure; we don't need to do this to earn a living.

[ItMe]

He is talking about level 70-80 dungeons. No one is new at that point.

What about job boosts?
Or someone who leveled SMN or SCH and are trying the other one out?
They could also be a returning player or someone picking an old job back up.
There are plenty of reasons one might not know their class at 70-80.
Heck, when I was a new player I got to cap and still had no idea what I was doing for months.

[MrPresident]

Because the game is way too easy now. You can just mash your controller/keyboard and stumble through every piece of content barring EX/Savage.

There hasn’t been a challenging dungeon in years but the decision to put them all behind MSQ made it even worse. You can’t scale the difficulty too high because then you’d lock players out of finishing the story. So they’re all absolute face roll stuff.

If there’s no in game indicator you’re doing something “wrong” you’ll never be prompted to reevaluate how to get better.

[Shurrikhan]

What about job boosts?
Or someone who leveled SMN or SCH and are trying the other one out?
They could also be a returning player or someone picking an old job back up.
There are plenty of reasons one might not know their class at 70-80.
Heck, when I was a new player I got to cap and still had no idea what I was doing for months.

To be fair, the last one would be a non-issue, so long as there were additional tools (be they guildhests, Halls of the Novice/Journeyman/Master/etc., or even just Active Help entries, etc.) to make up for the retroactive increase in engagement/knowledge required. For those truly new, they'd already be pathed through those learning requirements, and thus there'd be no sudden gap.

Pair that with some job-specific resources, such as a Vindictus-style or better Actions & Traits Pane (i.e., one that actually visually demonstrates each skill under the contexts it ought be used, along with concise but powerful tips) or the like and you've covered the other points of vulnerability, too. And the game would be the better for it, regardless.

[Kes13a]

And the tank refusing to pull more than a single pack despite needing no more than a precast HoT or shield and a single oGCD to remain healthy throughout... isn't compelling a certain playstyle?

generally why when I tank, I tank with people in my fc since I am slow, I admit I am not a confident tank and since I main healer, I tend to know where things get tight if the tank has blown their mitigation. So I dont usually rush things through faster than I am comfortable with.

[SwordswornFox]

Because the game is way too easy now. You can just mash your controller/keyboard and stumble through every piece of content barring EX/Savage.

There hasn’t been a challenging dungeon in years but the decision to put them all behind MSQ made it even worse. You can’t scale the difficulty too high because then you’d lock players out of finishing the story. So they’re all absolute face roll stuff.

If there’s no in game indicator you’re doing something “wrong” you’ll never be prompted to reevaluate how to get better.

Define 'wrong'

As a tank I keep every mob on me no dropped aggro, but I only did 1-2 packs at a time and not wall to wall. Am I wrong for going at a pace I feel comfortable with and know I will get everyone through the content.

As a DPS am I wrong for singling out that Wasp that has a near OHK first before aoeing everything the tank brought together. Does it take a few extra seconds to get through everything yes, but I killed something that could have messed up how the group was rolling.

As a healer I throw out a GCD barrier a bit more often because I want a little more 'cushion' on the tank's health just incase someone misses a wasp sting or similar, my DPS is slightly down but I minimized the chance of a hiccup, lagspike, etc screwing my healing up by being slightly proactive.

They might not be 'optimal' in many people's eyes, but are those playstyles truly 'wrong'...no.

[SniperCT]

Define 'wrong'

As a tank I keep every mob on me no dropped aggro, but I only did 1-2 packs at a time and not wall to wall. Am I wrong for going at a pace I feel comfortable with and know I will get everyone through the content.

As a DPS am I wrong for singling out that Wasp that has a near OHK first before aoeing everything the tank brought together. Does it take a few extra seconds to get through everything yes, but I killed something that could have messed up how the group was rolling.

As a healer I throw out a GCD barrier a bit more often because I want a little more 'cushion' on the tank's health just incase someone misses a wasp sting or similar, my DPS is slightly down but I minimized the chance of a hiccup, lagspike, etc screwing my healing up by being slightly proactive.

They might not be 'optimal' in many people's eyes, but are those playstyles truly 'wrong'...no.

When tanking or healing I put MARKERS up on those bees in Qarn and tell the DPS to focus fire them lol

I have a level 36 character at the moment who hasn't been contacted by a Grand Company...whatever that is, who can't get a mount, who has no idea where to go to see more of the main story and I think I've figured out that it's because I haven't done any dungeons beyond Tam-Tara (although nowhere is that stated in exactly those words...not in any doco, website, youtube video, tutorial or anywhere else). And that makes me very uncomfortable for exactly the expectations expressed by some in this thread. "You're not doing it right!" I don't want to bother other people by not playing they way they expect me to. Nor do I want to have to rely on others to play through the game; I just want to be left alone.

Check the upper left of your screen there's supposed to be a little button that tells you where to go next in the MSQ

Yes, the chocobo and etc opens up as you do the MSQ. You will on occasion have to do duty finder. Several trials (single boss fights) and a dungeon or two every once in awhile. There are three between 15 and 20, a trial at 20, 2 dungeons in the 20s, 1 dungeon and trial in the 30s, etc(at 50 are 2 special dungeons that...just follow along they tend to be hectic but are faceroll and square never did anything like them again. Players do them on repeat for huge XP bonuses for alt classes.). each series of patches adds a trial and dungeon or two over the course of an expansion's life. At 50 you'll also have to do the Crystal Tower alliance raid but it's roughly LFR difficulty and most runs are pretty smooth.

MOST runs will be smooth and MOST players will be polite and offer tips and friendly advice, I think the people on the forums are extra salty but the same can be said of every MMO. I at least try to be nice to people.

[Shurrikhan]

generally why when I tank, I tank with people in my fc since I am slow, I admit I am not a confident tank and since I main healer, I tend to know where things get tight if the tank has blown their mitigation. So I dont usually rush things through faster than I am comfortable with.

Oh I understand getting the occasional inexperienced tank (even if increasingly less so with levels past their boost when the MSQ experience clearly went to another job).

I just don't understand the hypocrisy of saying that a party asking their tank (who has yet to drop below 80% HP even without getting a single GCD heal during the fight itself) to pull more than a single pack at a time is "forcing" their playstyle upon others and has breached the ToS even while insisting that the tank refusing to pull more, despite being fully able to survive without a single press other than to spam their first AoE button, is somehow blameless.

One is a request that the bottlenecking individual follow majority preferences, at least to the extent possible for that individual. The other is a literal barrier, penetrable only by a kick.