Please implement something to teach players how to play

[lezard21]

Here some other ideas:

- A dungeon where the groups of mobs respawn if you don't pull and kill them altogether (like that Guildhest no one runs) to teach tanks to do wall to wall pulls
- A boss mechanic like Extreme Caution but that instead explodes if you don't deal X amount of damage in time to encourage people to learn and optimize their rotations
- A mechanic that places X amount of stacks on the Tank. Each time the tank is healed 1 stack is reduced. If it reaches 0, the tank gets a debuff that turns healing into damage. This will teach healers to use their oGCDs to heal and not overheal spam with GCDs.

lol square enix would never do this, so many players would quit

And not even necessarily bad players *points at my previous post about the time WoW did this*

But isn't this what we always like to pat ourselves in the back about? That we are better than WoW? Surely people wouldn't quit but instead get better than WoW players

[Kaurhz]

Here some other ideas:

- A dungeon where the groups of mobs respawn if you don't pull and kill them altogether (like that Guildhest no one runs) to teach tanks to do wall to wall pulls
- A boss mechanic like Extreme Caution but that instead explodes if you don't deal X amount of damage in time to encourage people to learn and optimize their rotations
- A mechanic that places X amount of stacks on the Tank. Each time the tank is healed the stack is reduced. If it reaches 0, the tank gets a debuff that turns healing into damage. This will teach healers to use their oGCDs to heal and not overheal spam with GCDs.

- If both the tank and healer are not adequate enough in that they can do wall to wall pulls then you run into the issue wherein that pull cannot be done as it will just spawn, and spawn, and spawn. Stagnating the dungeon progress.

- Learning is a progressive thing, they won't fail it and then magically succeed the following pull. There's a reason people spend a significant amount of time practicing on dummies.

- I hate to be that one guy, but this is on every member of the party as much as it is on the tank or healer. If a group has lower damage, these fights will last longer. Players will need to exhaust more tank cooldowns, when these cooldowns have been exhausted it will be more necessary to use GCDs instead of just oGCDs.

Many of these solutions, or proposals try to get people to learn, at the expense of punishing the others in the group - This is not how this should be done. If you want to encourage this in solo instances throughout the MSQ or want to encourage creative mechanics, or more difficult/stringent checks, then by all means go that route. But you shouldn't be punishing several other people for the inadequacies of other people in the group. I'd much rather just carry them on every single basis than deal with this. If they haven't learned their lesson by Level 66 on a basic class play or functionality, then the incorporation of these isn't going to magically make them succeed. They will still need to learn and that process is not instantaneous.

[Shurrikhan]

- If both the tank and healer are not adequate enough in that they can do wall to wall pulls then you run into the issue wherein that pull cannot be done as it will just spawn, and spawn, and spawn. Stagnating the dungeon progress.

Hard walls to progress, where properly situated, are not necessarily a bad thing.

Done well, they reveal many of the points of potential personal progress (learning opportunities) certain members simply foisted onto others instead of engaging with, thereby revealing exactly how to dismantle that wall.

I'd rather have dungeon progress stagnated briefly for what would become increasingly the rare exception among players than have all dungeon design creativity permanently stagnated by being limited to the lowest denominator among them.

____________________

To be clear, I don't think we need -- nor would I want -- external absolute prerequisites like Proving Grounds or complicators like reward-affecting performance metrics, even if largely just because I do not trust our devs to implement them with remotely sufficient quality. But I am more than happy not to limit our content to what can be face-rolled through on at most the first couple attempts.

[Payadopa]

So what you mean by 'teaching' is 'dictating' others how you want them to play? Gotcha.

[lezard21]

So what you mean by 'teaching' is 'dictating' others how you want them to play? Gotcha.

The game already dictates you how you should play it. It's in the skill descriptions. What OP is saying is that a lot of people do not read these descriptions and continue using Fire 1 and Cure 1 in level 80 dungeons.

[Drakonic]

Title. (and no, the smiths outdated tutorial doesn't count)

I'm getting sick of running dungeons, trials, etc. whatever the hell content, and people just don't have a clue.

The usual suspects are out:

- Healer who stands still, doesn't deal damage, cant even keep up with healing
- DPS who single targets mobs when you have like the entire dungeon on you
- Tanks who just sit there and pull 1 group at a time
- People at max level who have no damn idea how to play their class whatsoever (example: Fire 1 Mage at level 80.)

What the hell is going on?

I've been feeling like I'm some crazy elitist just because I have an expectation that you have like an iota of competence.

IDK, detract me. Thanks.

Also, Im not going to bother trying to teach people things in game. Been there, done that. You get screamed at.

That's literally because of the influx and good players unsubbing temporarily.

[Pirana1]

Some people play this game casually, hate to break it to you. Not everyone is going to be up to the same speed as you with the game.

Then don't queue for group content, play solo. It's very simple.

On topic. You can't teach common sense, you either have it or you don't.

[SniperCT]

Here some other ideas:

- A dungeon where the groups of mobs respawn if you don't pull and kill them altogether (like that Guildhest no one runs) to teach tanks to do wall to wall pulls
- A boss mechanic like Extreme Caution but that instead explodes if you don't deal X amount of damage in time to encourage people to learn and optimize their rotations
- A mechanic that places X amount of stacks on the Tank. Each time the tank is healed 1 stack is reduced. If it reaches 0, the tank gets a debuff that turns healing into damage. This will teach healers to use their oGCDs to heal and not overheal spam with GCDs.



But isn't this what we always like to pat ourselves in the back about? That we are better than WoW? Surely people wouldn't quit but instead get better than WoW players

1) Wow did this. It's an annoying mechanic everytime they do it. Gauntlet runs don't teach you anything but rage lol
2) That's just an enrage mechanic

people will quit because they'll be FRUSTRATED. Because if they keep running into these walls that make it difficult to progress, it will affect their morale and they'll quit. Even good players can run into walls sometimes and it REALLY sucks to feel like crap because you can't do x mechanic in exactly the right way in order to be able to continue playing. Plus, it's HUGELY anti-accessibility. People with hand issues or reflex already have a hard enough time if they want to do anything more challenging than normal raids. (or normal raids for that matter). Thing is they'd have to make it challenging enough for the 'good' players that it could be impossible for players that don't meet whatever standards are assigned to those 'good' players.

However I don't think this dev team believes in punishing players in quite this way, so it'll never happen anyway, so it's really a moot point.

Then don't queue for group content, play solo. It's very simple.

On topic. You can't teach common sense, you either have it or you don't.

Fun fact, MSQ requires grouping. If you want to level alt classes, you pretty much have to group too.

And FURTHERMORE casual does not = solo wtf

[Pirana1]

1) Wow did this. It's an annoying mechanic everytime they do it. Gauntlet runs don't teach you anything but rage lol
2) That's just an enrage mechanic

people will quit because they'll be FRUSTRATED. Because if they keep running into these walls that make it difficult to progress, it will affect their morale and they'll quit. Even good players can run into walls sometimes and it REALLY sucks to feel like crap because you can't do x mechanic in exactly the right way in order to be able to continue playing. Plus, it's HUGELY anti-accessibility. People with hand issues or reflex already have a hard enough time if they want to do anything more challenging than normal raids. (or normal raids for that matter). Thing is they'd have to make it challenging enough for the 'good' players that it could be impossible for players that don't meet whatever standards are assigned to those 'good' players.

However I don't think this dev team believes in punishing players in quite this way, so it'll never happen anyway, so it's really a moot point.



Fun fact, MSQ requires grouping. If you want to level alt classes, you pretty much have to group too.

And FURTHERMORE casual does not = solo wtf

That would be correct. Then use some common sense and learn the class beforehand.

[Shurrikhan]

You can't teach common sense, you either have it or you don't.

You can, unless you're working off some wonky definition by which teaching can only refer to explicit step-by-step instruction. (And even then, it can be taught. You'll just have probably killed any motivation to bother learning.)

In any less artificially confined sense of teaching, well, that's exactly how common sense becomes common.