Also I see how in over the time I was at work this thread got so damn high in page count. Jiminy Crickets this thread needs to be locked. Any time this thread tries to finally find a middle ground the same three posters wake up from their nap or whatever and start the same loop while a new new person to the thread comes and doesn't understand what this thread is about or even asking for due to people going five rounds with the same three people who'd rather just keep the discussion going in a never ending loop of "How Dare anyone ask for any way to improve the overall player base" tag teamed with "No one should care at all if or how anyone else plays as long as everyone is polite. Better yet just says nothing cause nothing but politeness matters. And everyone should just stop using the DF and PF only." While anyone who wants something to help improve the overall player base should feel shame for wanting it. Not that there aren't some who feel the other side shouldn't feel shame for being ok with ice mages ect and trolling.