Please implement something to teach players how to play

[Faafetai]

So here in your perfect FF14 you gatekeep players and have an intense program that teaches them. Ok, Now picture DF content that you do everything. Balance around that. Do some of you understand just how tedious the game would be? If we are going to grind for months on the same thing, it being mind numbing easy is MUCH better than it requiring full attention. If it required focus all the time, you understand just how much worse the grind would be?

I should hope the devs at least have their heads screwed on straight to know if they added teaching things within the game it would be tailored to those learning and hopefully even the content they wish to do. I am assuming that was how this thread started. I would think they would just fix the early class quests to actually allow for you to test abilities to know what they do rather than kill opo opos a million times and light a torch to summon more opo opos, this just taught me someone on the dev team really hated opo opos for some reason. I played other mmos so I kind of understood cooldowns and the like, but for someone who has never played an mmo or tanked before showing or teaching things called tank busters exist, maybe not giving you a tank stance at level 10 and right when you pick up the class would also be kind of them.

There should just be an option for content like they have for class quests but just put it into other things, so everyone can get what they want. People can already undersize content so they can do things easier at a higher level than what it would have been going in to the content synced. They had this for swtor you have , story mode, veteran, mastermode content, all of the same things just at different difficulties.

[Wavaryen]

snip

You seem to need to learn about wow mythic. I could spend all this time teaching you at just how bad it is, how mythic keys and players treat each other because of that system. How the content is design that wants players to be over gear for the content, and how one mistake leads people to be toxic.


So since we will not come eye to eye because of your lack of knowledge on wow mythic. Lets look at your other points.


1. Teaching for what reason? Like I said I came up with an answer for the teaching issue. And if the normal content requires the game to teach and players to be "decent". For what ends?

2. Having harder content would mean that It would be more tedious to grind each day. I like that normal content is easy and does not test me, and most players like that also. I'm not saying that you can't have that content. What I am saying is that making the game harder would make the game more tedious to grind.

3. Back to point 2. Making the game harder would make the dailies more tedious.


5. Um...you ignore the history of this game. Dragoons of the past are crying tears of blood with this comment.


6. No what I am saying is that mind numbing easy content has its place, and is enjoyable. When I play diablo type games, and grind in them. I don't go...man I sure do wish my grind was harder, and tests me! No I enjoy the grind, and how easy it is to kill things.




So here is the point. The game rise to be top because it is easy and lets bad players stay bad and have fun. and it has hard content for people who want it. Nothing needs to change. content wise.


Can we add ways for players to teach each other? Sure and I gave an idea. But many of us draw a line when players talk of forcing people to get good.

[Wavaryen]

I should hope the devs at least have their heads screwed on straight to know if they added teaching things within the game it would be tailored to those learning and hopefully even the content they wish to do. I am assuming that was how this thread started. I would think they would just fix the early class quests to actually allow for you to test abilities to know what they do rather than kill opo opos a million times and light a torch to summon more opo opos, this just taught me someone on the dev team really hated opo opos for some reason. I played other mmos so I kind of understood cooldowns and the like, but for someone who has never played an mmo or tanked before showing or teaching things called tank busters exist, maybe not giving you a tank stance at level 10 and right when you pick up the class would also be kind of them.

There should just be an option for content like they have for class quests but just put it into other things, so everyone can get what they want. People can already undersize content so they can do things easier at a higher level than what it would have been going in to the content synced. They had this for swtor you have , story mode, veteran, mastermode content, all of the same things just at different difficulties.

I mean sure, I don't think anyone would not care tools like this happen, My issue is when people want the MSG to gate unskilled people..or to make DF dungeons harder. I'm just like ehhhh?


Even if we add these tools. The player base won't gain skill. Because most players just play and have fun. They will not use it because they don't need it.

snip

So in other words. You have nothing. I gave you respect by debating and telling you why I feel the way I do. Since you want to teach people. Let me teach you something. If you can't back up your claims, and run away from people who challenge you. Maybe you should learn basic social skills, before wanting other players to get good in a mmo. Being social is part of what MMO are, and you failed that test.



At post limit now time for bed.

[Rinhi]

every single of ralph's posts on the OF has been about "toxic tryhard elitists" and I thought that gimmick was over, but I guess he was just waiting for the right moment to make his comeback :')

[MiaShino]

Giving you a chance to explain, and you can't even do it. At least I can explain myself and why I feel the way I do.

No, nope nope I just simply do not feel like feeding you or your "wife" any additional attention beyond the occasional heckling you disserve. It is kinda losing its fun and has become sad, like dueling with a small kitten.

How do you know they're performing at 15-20 compared to the entirety of the player base?

Hmmm, I can only provide personal experience as I would not use things like Fflogs for this buuuuut I know when someone is underperforming within the duty. If my partner does a large pull (MT. Gulg pull of legends) and I eat my fairy three times and blow through four excogitations just to keep them alive I do not need fflogs or "third party software" to tell me something is incorrect. I can also see that the dps were using single target skills the whole time. I can then compile all of my experiences within the mind and draw conclusions by comparing smoother runs with sub optimal ones. The conclusion I reach? We will probably only do big pulls with family because the average player kinda.. stinks.

The game is here for everyone to enjoy regardless of their skill level.

This may work for single player games but it seldom ends well for multiplayer titles. Actually, it does not work well for single player games. I made a post three walls of herpa derp back explaining this process. The players craving a challenge leave, then the average "tries their best but is not the best" player leaves. Finally, finally the "casual" players grow bored and leave. It is a slow and painful death of a game and it will happen if the content is further dumbed down.

objectives: "...Oh, play-time inflation that has no connection to or synergy with the story except to be the... 13th reason as of yet for me to cross the river above the Bannock. Great... I mean, I guess the area's pretty, sure, but... isn't this path of archery butts supposed to have some intent to it -- something in keeping with the lessons the prior dialogue hinted at?"

I would think they would just fix the early class quests to actually allow for you to test abilities to know what they do rather than kill opo opos a million times and light a torch to summon more opo opos, this just taught me someone on the dev team really hated opo opos for some reason.

Mmmmhmmmm! It was most amusing listening to family members rant about this!
There are some quests that attempt this and it causes sadness that more do not. The first gunbreaker quest teaches you tank swapping, off tank mechanics, watching for adds and numerous other tanking concepts even cooldown management!!

The scholar quests are also fantastic! They teach the importance of Esuna and later scholar quests even have you enter dungeons with ai party members. My only issue with this is they should be placed in your party kinda like the squad and trusts are.

The summoner is another class that will swiftly teach you the importance of mechanics and deeps player's roll in performing them. Half of summoner missions are epic boss fights with mechanics it is cray cray.

There is but oneeeee tiny itty bitty problem.. Square added easy mode so now they fail to fulfil their intended purpose of teaching. Fail? Just slap that bad boy on very easy and steamroll to victory. Everybody gets a medal.

[Ralph2449]

Games are designed for EVERYONE.
From people with disabilities to the hardcore players.

You seem to be confused, I never said games arent for everyone, I said people whose ego is based on video game performance because they base their self worth on digital video game achievements are really unhealthy and toxic to any community, you can see that by simply the way they type and how much disdain they have about a few things such as "nerfing content" or making rewards more "accessible". The attitude and behavior of such people is really easy to detect exactly because their self worth is based on something so fragile and unstable.

Any kind of person can enjoy video games, the problem is some because they have no achievements in real life OBSESS over "hardcore" video game content and like to pretend as if they achieved some great real life achievement when literally the game is designed to be beaten, do you think a real opponent will give you a big safe area when they attack you? No the game is literally designed to be beaten, it isnt some ultra great glorious elite real life achievement, but because certain elitist depend on said achievements they have overhyped video game high end content to the point people think even WoW mythic raids are somekind of ultra hard sweaty content when the reality is it is simply harder heroic, not some epic life changing achievement.

These people are the problem and sadly they are many in the gaming community for obvious reasons.

And like i said previously, making utility useful aka making it stop you from dying shouldnt be considered making the content harder, if not using utility means you are dying, you are simply reminding people to use certain toolkit it is often ignored cuz 90% of mmorpg content is just shooting stuff.

If a game's content was 90% making the right choice in a puzzle and 10% was combat that didnt matter cuz even if you just pressed 1 button things would still die, of course people wouldnt bother to care much about combat and would mainly focus on solving puzzles. Reminding people of an aspect they rarely bother with shouldnt be considered making the game "harder".

[SomeRandomHuman]

People are starting to misconstrue the point trying to be discussed: Being new =/= being bad. We're angry at people that actively refuse to use their full loadout because they think they don't have to. We're not talking min-max speedrunning tactics; we're talking just doing basic rotations and mechanical understanding.

Our resident white knight is constantly saying that we only need 2-3 buttons to clear DF content and that the game is intended to work that way and is unable to prove it.

4 man content is the gate to the typically "harder," by his standard, 8 and 24 man content and says you only need more than 2-3 skills for that content only. Yet with this logic then why do we even have more than the 2-3 skills if the game is intended to be done that way?

The whole argument of this thread is about why people that only use 2-3 skills of their whole loadout in level 70+ content and refuse to do anything more than that are in the wrong since they're actively hindering the rest of the playerbase. We've had retorts of "let people play how they want" and how wanting someone to do their basic rotations and job mechanics in an even lazy fashion is being a "toxic elitist."

[Tithian]

These 46 (so far) pages tell me that FFXIV has the same issues as other games when people with different ideas of "how the game should be played" end up in the same group. You get toxicity. And this is why I'm so uncomfortable doing group content. My personality type is that I don't handle confrontations well at all. If I don't group with others, I don't have to face that possibility, so when a game *requires* group content to continue the story line, I get all hesitant and have to pluck up the courage to dive into DF to get the dungeon done.

And that's why as a level 43 Dragoon I'm still stuck at Toto-Rak! I hasten to add that's no-one's fault except mine. What I'm hoping to do is demonstrate that sometimes it's not about the level of competence of the player, its about the comfort level and a person's own perception of their competence. Because there's no real way to see how well you're doing. And I don't have a clue how you could do that in-game without causing all sorts of other issues about expected performance from those other "elitist" players. Because those do exist...and I'm very much afraid I'm going to get one or two whenever I have to do group content.

You should understand that the people frequenting the forums and the experiences they describe typically do not represent the attitude and experience of the average player. I levelled recently White Mage entirely through the Duty Finder and not once did I encounter those mythical beings in the OP, that couldn't figure left from right. Everyone was helpful and understanding when fails happened, people gave advice and guided groups successfully, gave sprout tanks the space to find their own speed etc. Vote kicks have gone out only to people that DC, and no one was stressing about completion times as long as the content was being done. The occasional wipe was never demoralizing and never did it lead to shouting matches throwing blame around.

You should not let the attitude of a fraction of a minority on the forums dissuade you from progressing your MSQ. If you're coming from WoW, you probably have expectations that the toxicity will be there 100% of the time from at least 1-2 players in the group, this is simply not the case here, and do not let this thread tell you otherwise.

[DPZ2]

Just introduce the rating system at the end of the dungeons that will vary between 1 and 5 stars and will take into account an amalgamation of things: DPS, hps, overhealing, apm etc.
A very subtle way to indicate player's performance without introducing DPS meter

"Screenshots, or you're lying." [Typical response to PF request that says 'Only 4-5 stars need apply' ... oh, wait, Yoshi P has already said that's what they want to avoid.]

[Faafetai]

every single of ralph's posts on the OF has been about "toxic tryhard elitists" and I thought that gimmick was over, but I guess he was just waiting for the right moment to make his comeback :')

I wish the research I had done, did not make this super clear in one second why someone may be salty, such as they. There are other datacenters out there, with similar like-minded individuals Ralph, there is still time for you to make the switch to Crystal.