Please implement something to teach players how to play

[Ralph2449]

Reminder that most people who talk about "requirements" never actually talk about the actual mathematical requirements and instead they obsess over inflated requirements that allow them to literally quickly roflstomp content because apparently not doing something efficiently and fast is literally the worst fate for such people.

I am sorry but when content can be easily done with literally half an optimal dps player, going around demanding l33t top performance from everyone is moronic.

It is the same thing as in wow where elitists keep demanding ridiculously inflated requirements, pretending it is so they can do the content when literally even mythic raids and high m+ can be bought with the buyer AFKing at the start which shows all those inflated elitists requirements are complete BS.

[Yeol]

The developers stated over and over that the reason they are dumping down jobs complexity is because of the average player performance.

FFXIV player base lack information. The majority of them don't know where they stand in terms of performance. They assume they are doing OK, but are they really?

I personally know a lot of players who were shocked to hear the truth about their performance. Mostly told by a friend or an FC mate. These players did not quit the game (Which for some reason a lot of players assume is what's going to happen) instead, they got better.

Giving information made a difference. I'd assume because the information came from someone they knew instead of a complete stranger.

Now if the game somehow made getting this information accessible without the need to refer to a friend or an FC mate. Things could change for the better.

And just to be clear, I don't think OP is asking for top performance. They're asking for basics. Which yes, the majority of the players lack.

I'm beginning to assume that people got used to seeing bad performance more often that they took it as the norm. Which is part of the problem.

[Ralph2449]

The developers stated over and over that the reason they are dumping down jobs complexity is because of the average player performance.

I really hope this doesnt continue because I was positively surprised by the "complexity" of many jobs which actually requires some time to master unlike WoW's dumbed down specs that can be mastered in a few days due to how much they ve been dumbed down, jobs become very boring if they can be mastered in a few days.

Giving information made a difference. I'd assume because the information came from someone they knew instead of a complete stranger.

That or more importantly it was suggested in a positive and non elitist manner which is a rare thing to see from the average gamer these days since most are unable to communicate without being insulting and accusatory.

There's is a big difference between "OMG WHY ARENT YOU USING X" and "Btw could you use X so I am not hit that hard, would help me", or the "Could you use X so this is finished faster? gogogo", only one of those 3 is actually positive and explains things correctly, the other 2 are demands, and few people online are gonna obey some random gamer's demands or their need to finish things quickly.

And just to be clear, I don't think OP is asking for top performance. They're asking for basics. Which yes, the majority of the players lack.

This is where you have to be really careful, because some simply expect people to know their job's basic mechanics, something that could be achieved by making low level content require things such as interrupts/dispels consistently or you die, the design problem is that the devs usually give you a couple of times where you need to use your utility skills and then dont really bother with them, after that even if it is needed failing to use your utility isnt going to kill you which is the problem. I dont believe requiring basic utility usage or you die is somehow increasing the difficulty by much, it is an aspect of your job that you should use to avoid dying and it should be highlighted more in open world and casual content so people start to instinctively use it more often to avoid death.

But you have to be careful because some people who seem to be ENTITLED to fast efficient runs seem to demand top performance because for them the worst fate seems to be not being able to clear something ultra fast and efficiently to get X reward.

[Neoyoshi]

How did I learn to play the game?

I just played the game tbh. I read tooltips, ran Sastasha over and over (until I got confident), that kind of thing. Only time I went external was to check out the balance for Savage content (because I didnt want to be dead weight.) I also had a buddy tell me I could pull everything from the moment I started the game if I used my CDs. Maybe that was too much of an advantage lol

But you played through the game right? Like most people?

I'm asking because everyone who plays through the game is supposedly being taught how to play their specific role; the Job story quests are there for that, as well as the levequests, the Smith NPC for Novices; and just playing and learning from mistakes are all of this games tools that it uses to instruct people.

I don't think you are an elitist or anything, but i get the sense that when you wrote that post, you were possibly frustrated? Am i wrong? I also get the sense that what you are really asking is for people to be better- more prepared players.

Look, there is nothing we can do with what is going on with people outside of a game, we are human beings with lives, sometimes life just gets in the way, sometimes a phone rings, or there is a knock at the door, or a baby is crying.

There's bad internet, PC issues, heck, the other night a FC-mate of mine was running a Ruby EX and her wireless controller died on her, even though she made sure to fully charge it before the Ruby runs that night; and she was franticly looking for her controllers cord to plug it in.

Life just happens man, we can't do anything about that; I'm sorry if this sounds patronizing- but I think we all could exercise more patience and compassion with each other while we play.

[Shurrikhan]

It is the same thing as in wow where elitists keep demanding ridiculously inflated requirements, pretending it is so they can do the content when literally even mythic raids and high m+ can be bought with the buyer AFKing at the start which shows all those inflated elitists requirements are complete BS.

You realize that inflation is almost always proportionate to the likelihood of encountering underprepared players, who would otherwise force replacements to have even a chance at progressing beyond phase 1, right? Yes, there are some who want to be carried through burst phases or mechanics by gear levels, but for the most part it's just to ensure minimal replacement is necessary upon entry.

For my part, I can take an undergeared alt, link prior experience, and get invited just fine, because the risk they take on me is already thereby minimized.

I'm asking because everyone who plays through the game is supposedly being taught how to play their specific role; the Job story quests are there for that, as well as the levequests, the Smith NPC for Novices; and just playing and learning from mistakes are all of this games tools that it uses to instruct people.

I'd guess it's still hit and miss. If the player knows what to be on the look-out for, the ingame information is mostly sufficient -- though a brief search externally as to clipping ideosyncracies, and some familiarity with raid CDs outside one's own job (for alignment, etc.), etc., can be worthwhile icing on the cake.

If they don't know what to be on the look-out for, or have yet to be drawn in to those kinds of habits of gameplay... it might be far from enough, especially since across the learning experience relies on motivation that just isn't relevant until that experience's very end (Extreme or harder content).

[Endariel]

Just introduce the rating system at the end of the dungeons that will vary between 1 and 5 stars and will take into account an amalgamation of things: DPS, hps, overhealing, apm etc.
A very subtle way to indicate player's performance without introducing DPS meter

[Fellgon]

When you attempt to please everyone you please no one and this thread is fantastic example! Appealing to majority of self entitled babies in adult bodies never ends well.

First the "elitists" evacuate to form their own groups to clear content that becomes less and less satisfying then leave once done.
Then the "average" player grows weary of being shouted at or expected to carry the below group and leaves. They may or may not attempt end game content before doing so. When they do, finding a party is one exercise in futility because group A left already.
This leaves group C, the "toxic casual". Group C believes that everyone is okay with dragging them through content and across the victory line kicking and screaming. They often lash out at others as children without understanding would. Groups A, B, and even C do not wish to play a game with group C (no matter how much they tell themselves they do).

Once groups A and B leave the game only group C remains. Group C proceeds to devour each other until everyone is sick of playing and the game begins the downward spiral into oblivion. FF14 has already reached peak levels of group C, what happens next will be most predictable to anyone with working brain cells.

Look towards a game that appeals to groups A and B, Dark Souls. It still has a fairly active community of friendly players despite being very very old and riddled with issues and bugs with netcode so bad it puts FF14's to shame. Heck! I have had invaders treat me with more respect and dignity then 50% of my duty finder groups and their soul purpose is to kill me..

Group A and B need a final fantasy souls-like sutch punitive final fantasy will make you curse 7 future generation of game dev. will make you crie tears of blood! They will love it! Square could improve AI from sephiroth of KH and use in sutch game. 10x more chalenging!

[Shurrikhan]

Just introduce the rating system at the end of the dungeons that will vary between 1 and 5 stars and will take into account an amalgamation of things: DPS, hps, overhealing, apm etc.
A very subtle way to indicate player's performance without introducing DPS meter

But why avoid a useful, more hands-on learning tool? There is nothing toxic about a dps meter that would not also be "toxic" about literally any other way by which someone might learn they or another are not performing as well as the average party member.

It's an underlying, preexistent conflict that is simply framed in a more conveniently analyzable way. Previously, having no information, you would simply disband and roll the dice on the next party if unable to remotely progress against a dps check. With parsers, you can look at when and for whom throughput is bogging, and address that. That's it. [A] had no direct means of recourse. [B] does. But I guess so long as A is silent and B the improvements B allows for may require talking to people, B must be toxic, right?

It's like insisting that DVDs were inherently criminal because they were the first medium on which you heard of bootleg copies being made. Had any other means, such as a x/5 stars performance rating, been our first definitive/quantifiable/analyzable exposure to unprepared or unengaged players, that would be getting the bad reputation instead (albeit pretty much only here in XIV, where basic etiquette and responsibility can be treated as oppression). Parsers are a merely an information tool. Yes, that information can be increasingly or decreasingly relevant depending on how well its framing of information fits what is intended of the game (I'd argue ACT is painfully basic/lackluster in that regard), but an information tool cannot itself create the problem it quantifies for players' analysis; it can only describe it.

[Jojoya]

The developers stated over and over that the reason they are dumping down jobs complexity is because of the average player performance.

FFXIV player base lack information. The majority of them don't know where they stand in terms of performance. They assume they are doing OK, but are they really?

I personally know a lot of players who were shocked to hear the truth about their performance. Mostly told by a friend or an FC mate. These players did not quit the game (Which for some reason a lot of players assume is what's going to happen) instead, they got better.

Giving information made a difference. I'd assume because the information came from someone they knew instead of a complete stranger.

Now if the game somehow made getting this information accessible without the need to refer to a friend or an FC mate. Things could change for the better.

And just to be clear, I don't think OP is asking for top performance. They're asking for basics. Which yes, the majority of the players lack.

I'm beginning to assume that people got used to seeing bad performance more often that they took it as the norm. Which is part of the problem.

How do you quantify what is "okay" performance?

I can guarantee you that players would try to set the bar for "okay" far higher than the developers have set it. Many already get upset when a dungeon isn't facerolled in 10 minutes.

What do you do about the players using systems that meet minimum system requirements and/or have slow internet connections speeds because they live in remote areas? Do you say "tough for you, you aren't allowed to play because you aren't rich enough to have the latest tech and fastest internet"? I remember raiding in WoW back in Wrath. My computer died mid-tier, got a replacement 2 weeks later and went back to raiding with the guild. My DPS increased 30% not because I had suddenly become a better player after 2 weeks of not raiding but because I was no longer having to raid at 3-7 FPS. Skill queuing was working better for me and I could see mechanics in enough time to move out of the way consistently instead of just when I got lucky.

Then there are the overseas players dealing with much higher ping that face the same struggles I had back in Wrath despite having good systems and good connection speeds.

It's difficult to set standards for what is "okay" when every player's situation is different. If you personally don't want to play with those who struggle for whatever reason, that's your choice. Use PF to form groups instead of relying on Duty Finder matchmaking and you can set your own standards for who is in your group.

But it's not up to you or any other players to decide who should be allowed to play. That's up to SE.

[Ralph2449]

I can guarantee you that players would try to set the bar for "okay" far higher than the developers have set it. Many already get upset when a dungeon isn't facerolled in 10 minutes.

Exactly this, min.ilvl requirements exist by the devs to quantify "okay" performance, technically can be done with lower ilvl but it is always safe to add a safety margin so it is already above the mathematical average requirement to get over the encounter.

Like you said the problem appears when the average elitist demands top performance for content that neither requires nor needs it to clear but it might be needed for their quick 10 minute roflstomp run because for some reason they feel entitled to a quick run and the rewards.

Seems like the community could degenerate the same way the WoW community has degenerated where they obsess over efficiency and anything even SLIGHTLY INEFFICIENT is labeled as "unviable" because it does 1.2% less dps, if this continues I wouldnt doubt some extreme tryhards will simulate the best 8 job comb to find the one that does 2% more damage overall and call jobs outside of that "unviable".