Please implement something to teach players how to play

[kaynide]

Correct, while yes Timers make things harder. It comes at a heavy price of being toxic, and gets people to gate keep even harder. With a timer, people want to over gear the content, and or if one person fails and you miss the timer. It breeds toxic like in wow.


Mind you, It is content I would not do, but I see no reason why it should not be in. As long as the GMS keep enforcing the rules. The player base should not be worried about toxic people.

I see.

I mean, I get things getting toxic because of fails in random DF with PUG style play, but with pre organized parties, I thought this kind of option would be more akin to endgame raiders where they are working towards being able to clear in a set amount of time. Or whatever else options to make it harder for some kind of reward.

Stuff like don’t avoid damage indicator equals instant death, or 1 party death equals a wipe and end of dungeon (no retry). I’m sure some people would eat that up, and I wouldn’t mind trying it out with friends.

[Enjuden]

It amazes me all of the noise over how the game is being paired down or catering to the lowest common denominator and yet when the game hands them a trainwreck party where you really have to pull out the stops just to clear, that's too much work.

-I mean, I get it. It's annoying when you're just trying to get shit done but I'd rather deal with that kind of difficulty than the extremely convoluted mechanics that make Savage what it is. Give me duelling tanks who cleave the raid, ice mages, incidental healers, melee who don't know what those red circles mean. An Alliance-worth of new players that think mechanics are for cars.

You'll never see me touch Savage content while it's relevant. I don't need to. Duty Finder is my Savage. Long may it reign.

That's usually the thing. The only reason it does exist is because the party is genuinely that bad (or doesn't care). Nobody's asking normal content to suddenly turn to savage, that's just blatant hyperbolic nonsense that people cater to as an excuse when people ask for difficulty to be normal+1/+2 instead of having a ludicrous jump between story/normal/extreme/savage content

[Krotoan]

I see.

I mean, I get things getting toxic because of fails in random DF with PUG style play, but with pre organized parties, I thought this kind of option would be more akin to endgame raiders where they are working towards being able to clear in a set amount of time. Or whatever else options to make it harder for some kind of reward.

Stuff like don’t avoid damage indicator equals instant death, or 1 party death equals a wipe and end of dungeon (no retry). I’m sure some people would eat that up, and I wouldn’t mind trying it out with friends.

I'm reasonably sure that the request being discussed is referring to DF runs and the like where you don't really have control over your party members. People who are receptive to improvement aren't who the topic was created for and the people who need the improvement and refuse to change aren't likely going to be lured in by even stricter optional runs even if you dangle some tasty carrots in front of them. They're just trying to pass, not make deans list.

Having optional objective rewards sounds fun and like something to add "content" using existing resources, but wouldn't affect the problem population this topic is about.

[kaynide]

I'm reasonably sure that the request being discussed is referring to DF runs and the like where you don't really have control over your party members. People who are receptive to improvement aren't who the topic was created for and the people who need the improvement and refuse to change aren't likely going to be lured in by even stricter optional runs even if you dangle some tasty carrots in front of them. They're just trying to pass, not make deans list.

Having optional objective rewards sounds fun and like something to add "content" using existing resources, but wouldn't affect the problem population this topic is about.

Fair point, but I think the root of the problem is a chunk of the player base wants to see excellence in player skill, and more options to shine in excellence where (as you said) most of the player base just doesn’t care because there isn’t a need to improve. And then I think the complaints come out of boredom from these players at the general apathy of the average player.

As you said, just a passing score is enough for most players, myself included.

I just thing creating a pocket of content (deans list!) outside the norm would give people who crave excellence a place to go together and play together with regular weekly content. They can work on regularly with like minded players on hard content. Even if it’s just dungeons.

As is once you can reliably clear ultimate Alexander/eden savage and have everything you wanted from it, what is there to do next for the end game raid community? Gear for alts? (I honestly don’t know, this is not meant sarcastically).

I dunno, make it give 2-3x XP/tomestones as roulette and I’d be first in line to up my game. As is, if I want to feel challenged with button presses I’ll play something like Ori.

[MiaShino]

Hmm. It is most interesting that so many of these kinda posts are appearing now but it is not a bad thing at'all! Nope nope it is good to see because many have been feeling burnout (friends and family and myself included).

It is soul crushing to watch friends get excited, they have reached level 50 on Ninja and are ready to pew pew pew. They are super new to the game, reading their kills and growing more and more excited. As excitement builds I feel happier for telling them about FF14, I hear "Ohhh I finally unlocked kassatsu! This is gonna be soooooo darn fun to use with doton or katon during huge pulls, all the stuffs will melt!" Then they queue in and the tank pulls a single mob. One. Single. Mob. Seriously? They then proceed to keep engaging and chain pulling so her and her partner can never hide refresh mudras. Two new sprouts using trick attack in sequence with each other for the maximum uptime, getting excited to test new skills only for.. that. Then the healer cures themselves oom and kills them.

Imagine being that new player worried about your rotation and damage, playing your little heart out in a manner most precious only to constantly encounter that. Dying because the tank was waiting for the second coming of christ to invuln on dragoon and losing lance charge. Having to waste dragonfire drive on two mobs.. Or you are attempting to learn healer and the arcanist/red mage on your team keeps healing the tanks boo boos so you never learn the timing for deeps then heal at low health.

I know this may shock many within this community but those three other people standing in the portal? Those are real people not npcs. They are real people with jobs and families and better things to do than carry dead weight through content. They are trying to enjoy the game in their own way too. Wiping five times in world of darkness because big red eye look away no compute and neither does do not spin boss like a bayblade is not fun. Not on your first run and not on your fiftieth either.

[Wavaryen]

Hmm. It is most interesting that so many of these kinda posts are appearing now but it is not a bad thing at'all! Nope nope it is good to see because many have been feeling burnout (friends and family and myself included).

It is soul crushing to watch friends get excited, they have reached level 50 on Ninja and are ready to pew pew pew. They are super new to the game, reading their kills and growing more and more excited. As excitement builds I feel happier for telling them about FF14, I hear "Ohhh I finally unlocked kassatsu! This is gonna be soooooo darn fun to use with doton or katon during huge pulls, all the stuffs will melt!" Then they queue in and the tank pulls a single mob. One. Single. Mob. Seriously? They then proceed to keep engaging and chain pulling so her and her partner can never hide refresh mudras. Two new sprouts using trick attack in sequence with each other for the maximum uptime, getting excited to test new skills only for.. that. Then the healer cures themselves oom and kills them.

Imagine being that new player worried about your rotation and damage, playing your little heart out in a manner most precious only to constantly encounter that. Dying because the tank was waiting for the second coming of christ to invuln on dragoon and losing lance charge. Having to waste dragonfire drive on two mobs.. Or you are attempting to learn healer and the arcanist/red mage on your team keeps healing the tanks boo boos so you never learn the timing for deeps then heal at low health.

I know this may shock many within this community but those three other people standing in the portal? Those are real people not npcs. They are real people with jobs and families and better things to do than carry dead weight through content. They are trying to enjoy the game in their own way too. Wiping five times in world of darkness because big red eye look away no compute and neither does do not spin boss like a bayblade is not fun. Not on your first run and not on your fiftieth either.

That dead weight brings balance to the social elements of the game. Queue systems saves you time, but should have risks. If people don't want to carry others, than make your own groups or make friends with people who have the same mindset as you and form groups. Anything and everything should be fair game in queue systems because that balances the game out. Build a social network.

Teaching people who don't want to be teached is pointless and waste of time. People have the tools to build own groups, and make friends. Be social and do that. It counters the problems people have now.

[Neoyoshi]

Title. (and no, the smiths outdated tutorial doesn't count)

I'm getting sick of running dungeons, trials, etc. whatever the hell content, and people just don't have a clue.

The usual suspects are out:

- Healer who stands still, doesn't deal damage, cant even keep up with healing
- DPS who single targets mobs when you have like the entire dungeon on you
- Tanks who just sit there and pull 1 group at a time
- People at max level who have no damn idea how to play their class whatsoever (example: Fire 1 Mage at level 80.)

What the hell is going on?

I've been feeling like I'm some crazy elitist just because I have an expectation that you have like an iota of competence.

IDK, detract me. Thanks.

Also, Im not going to bother trying to teach people things in game. Been there, done that. You get screamed at.

TO clarify: I'm mainly concerned about level 70-80 characters having these issues.

How did you learn how to play?

[Endariel]

Fascinating how this entire thread can be summarized in people defending "i refuse to learn" mentality and criticizing any idea that will force people to, you know, actually learn to read their tooltips at the very least.
Sounds like karens that refuse to wear masks

[MiaShino]

That dead weight brings balance to the social elements of the game. Queue systems saves you time, but should have risks. If people don't want to carry others, than make your own groups or make friends with people who have the same mindset as you and form groups. Anything and everything should be fair game in queue systems because that balances the game out. Build a social network.

Teaching people who don't want to be teached is pointless and waste of time. People have the tools to build own groups, and make friends. Be social and do that. It counters the problems people have now.

Wat? What the heck does "bring balance to the social elements of the game" even mean? Dead weight forces people to interact? They should be doing that already no?

On that particular bit of.. something, they tried and so did I. They joined a free company that asked two sprouts at level 25 to run savage and farm birds. Ohhh also that getting gear was unimportant because they can just unsync the dungeon and get it that way.. Level 25 still doing sylph management to unsync dungeons for gear. Genius!

So we all made our own free companies but we umm, work? Our schedules do not always align so our options are only play when we are all on or do not use the duty finder because expecting basic levels of competence is too much. Also how does a 30 minute deeps queue save time again?

Why am I even bothering is the better question to be asking.. I said it once and shall say again, this community has issues. Off to go build a "social network" so we can play a fricken video game with semi-conscious people. I am not expecting everyone to be 100'th percentile here, I am asking to not uncombo your three button seven times in a row, not even say hello then yeet yourself out of the dungeon the moment the last boss dies. I am also venting not attempting to teach anyone anything. Just.. wow. I cannot even.

Common sense

How else can they farm memories while watching Netflix while their doggo plays the game for them then? Hmm?! Hmm!!!? You horrible monster, this is their play style choice. It is good manners to waste everyone's time here in NA.

[Wavaryen]

Wat? What the heck does "bring balance to the social elements of the game" even mean? Dead weight forces people to interact? They should be doing that already no?

On that particular bit of.. something, they tried and so did I. They joined a free company that asked two sprouts at level 25 to run savage and farm birds. Ohhh also that getting gear was unimportant because they can just unsync the dungeon and get it that way.. Level 25 still doing sylph management to unsync dungeons for gear. Genius!

So we all made our own free companies but we umm, work? Our schedules do not always align so our options are only play when we are all on or do not use the duty finder because expecting basic levels of competence is too much. Also how does a 30 minute deeps queue save time again?

Why am I even bothering is the better question to be asking.. I said it once and shall say again, this community has issues. Off to go build a "social network" so we can play a fricken video game with semi-conscious people. I am not expecting everyone to be 100'th percentile here, I am asking to not uncombo your three button seven times in a row, not even say hello then yeet yourself out of the dungeon the moment the last boss dies. I am also venting not attempting to teach anyone anything. Just.. wow. I cannot even.



How else can they farm memories while watching Netflix while their doggo plays the game for them then? Hmm?! Hmm!!!? You horrible monster, this is their play style choice. It is good manners to waste everyone's time here in NA.

It is simple really, Match Making system takes away from the social elements of MMOs. That does not mean they don't belong, but it is balance by having risk of the quality of players you can get. That is balanced. If match making was too good, it would discourage people from building a network of people they can depend on, because why would they need to if the quality of players was always high when match making? In the old days before match making. We still had jobs, and still able to build social network to do raids/dungeons balance it. I guess it is a lost art now.

Fascinating how this entire thread can be summarized in people defending "i refuse to learn" mentality and criticizing any idea that will force people to, you know, actually learn to read their tooltips at the very least.
Sounds like karens that refuse to wear masks

I criticizing people who want these people to learn how to play not for their own enjoyment. but for yourselves. The only reason why you all want players to get better, so that you can make the convenience of your match making have a higher chance for you to get a better group. It has nothing to do with said person enjoyment, and everything to do with your own. Hey, at least you can say the same about the other person. They play how they want running over your enjoyment right?