Please implement something to teach players how to play

[Liam_Harper]

I think that the best and most fair solution would be to have dungeons, trials, raids, etc. have an individual minimum DPS objective. If you fail to meet that objective you are not able to roll for loot or it doesn't count for quest completition.

Or add time objectives to dungeons, example finish within 20 minutes and you get bonus gil/exp/items, finish within 21-30 minutes and you get normal exp/gil/items, take more than 30 minutes and you don't get rewards.

I'd imagine they won't do this because it's going to lead to hostile behavior in the case of a wipe or very new player. It's also not going to be fun if you're the good player in the group and the other 3 players result in you losing all rewards for the dungeon.

That said, I wouldn't mind some form of reward for good play. Comms just don't work, the majority of players either don't care or aren't experienced enough to judge who deserves one. FF14 unfortunately is one of the most thankless games to perform well in. It gets you nothing but occasional belittlement.
A system that evaluated you personally based on dps, healing (minus overheal), amount of damage mitigated and so on and gave you something, even if only some collectible stars that lead to achievements with a few rewards for different tiers would be a big improvement. It would give newer players motivation to try and improve. But you don't lose on anything significant should one player slip up or run a bit slower.

[Enjuden]

Bluntly, it pretty much is a revolution. MSQ was gatekept for a time with the Steps of Faith until people cried about not getting stepped on, or reading dialogue boxes in front of them so it got nerfed into the floor. Heavensward in particular was an exceedingly difficult to play expansion because the floor got raised about six levels from ARR. Was fun for some but not for a whole lot of people, including me and I raid regularly.

The only thing I can think of is having the trust dungeon be the bare minimum line, with xyz boss having an enrage mechanic. Enrages do need to be a little less forgiving if you want that in dungeons, though enrage is honestly a boring mechanic for players in general. Even a stricter time limit on solo trials would be a decent upgrade to skill floor, though we will have to see. It is a difficult question because there has been nearly six years of coddling to even lower than bare minimum effort both by community and by the devs themselves.

Note that I'm not saying all content should not have been nerfed. The apology raid in Heavensward was rightly there because the game was exceedingly difficult then with the new mechanics being introduced on top of difficulty with optimization.

[Vahlnir]

Bluntly, it pretty much is a revolution. MSQ was gatekept for a time with the Steps of Faith until people cried about not getting stepped on, or reading dialogue boxes in front of them so it got nerfed into the floor. Heavensward in particular was an exceedingly difficult to play expansion because the floor got raised about six levels from ARR. Was fun for some but not for a whole lot of people, including me and I raid regularly.

To be fair, the raiding experience at the start of HW was unpleasant for many. Gordias broke up a lot of groups. I think they learned then and there that making things stupid difficult doesn't equal acceptable participation levels. Everything we've seen since then reflects that, aside from Ultimate. Ultimate is fine though. It's for the most hardcore players who really, REALLY want a challenge.

[Broken_Wind]

Hey all! Sorry I dropped out of the conversation!

Overall, I think I'm just done with this idea.

It seems like this is a community culture thing and what I'm asking is akin to asking for a revolution.

I'm just wanting something in game to nudge people to improve. It seems like this is an impossibility, at least for now. Every time there is a good idea (subjective), there will be the side that's concerned about peoples feelings getting hurt.

Don't get me wrong, that's a valid concern, but it just leads to no progress. I don't know. Seems to be an extremely nuanced thing with multiple variables that I cant possibly account for.

Overall, yes the game could do a better job of teaching player the nuances of the game (for examples: tank cooldowns, interrupts, stuns)
Players should be expected to at least read their class abilities and know about their buffs, combos and procs.
And there is nothing wrong with coaching players such as suggesting that if there are 3 or more mobs your AoE rotation will do more damage

Should players be expected to visit Balance discord for their optimal rotation and practice their opener? Of course not. That is for savage/ultimate content, not for roulettes.
Should tanks be expected to pull wall to wall if they aren't comfortable with it? Of course not. However, if they are pulling single packs there is nothing wrong with the healer speaking up and saying 'if you want, you can pull more, Ive got you covered'.

But just because someone is 80 and in a roulette doesn't mean they have done that dungeon in their given role before.
And I will NEVER support speed run type content, ever. If you are in a rush, don't do roulettes. This should be taught more than anything else mentioned in this thread.

[Krotoan]

Seems to be an extremely nuanced thing with multiple variables that I cant possibly account for.

Welcome to designing games for people other than you. Now just remember this any time you think that some game developer has a "wrong" idea and you know exactly how to fix it.


if we can get everyone to realize this maybe there will be a little more patience in the gaming world.

[Ursa_Vonfiebryd]

Welcome to designing games for people other than you. Now just remember this any time you think that some game developer has a "wrong" idea and you know exactly how to fix it.


if we can get everyone to realize this maybe there will be a little more patience in the gaming world.

It amazes me all of the noise over how the game is being paired down or catering to the lowest common denominator and yet when the game hands them a trainwreck party where you really have to pull out the stops just to clear, that's too much work.

-I mean, I get it. It's annoying when you're just trying to get shit done but I'd rather deal with that kind of difficulty than the extremely convoluted mechanics that make Savage what it is. Give me duelling tanks who cleave the raid, ice mages, incidental healers, melee who don't know what those red circles mean. An Alliance-worth of new players that think mechanics are for cars.

You'll never see me touch Savage content while it's relevant. I don't need to. Duty Finder is my Savage. Long may it reign.

[kaynide]

Hey all! Sorry I dropped out of the conversation!

Overall, I think I'm just done with this idea.

It seems like this is a community culture thing and what I'm asking is akin to asking for a revolution.

I'm just wanting something in game to nudge people to improve. It seems like this is an impossibility, at least for now. Every time there is a good idea (subjective), there will be the side that's concerned about peoples feelings getting hurt.

Don't get me wrong, that's a valid concern, but it just leads to no progress. I don't know. Seems to be an extremely nuanced thing with multiple variables that I cant possibly account for.

Nothing wrong with asking! And nothing wrong with a suggestion here.

Personally, I think the easiest way to encourage better play is to offer a carrot.

So, imagine “time trial” version of dungeons, where objective is to clear certain dungeons, at sync’d iLVL in a really close amount of time. Typically a dungeon allows for an hour, so how about a 20 min timer? Or 30, but with diminishing rewards?

Then make it so it can’t be done via duty finder (gotta pre-make your party), and then choose from like 5 or so in a weekly rotation. (Can clear each once?)

Obviously they’d have to tweak the allowable time, but certainly 30 minutes would be enough. Basically it should be tight enough that you would need to pull off rotations excellently to clear.

Reward? Currency for mounts, minis etc. I dunno, maybe have rotating rewards or even the currency is only good the week you earn it. (Like Khloe’ book)


Hell, plan B just make it “Khloe’s Book of Scary Stories” and work it like her weekly thing except either reduced iLVL or really tight amount of time. Again, non DF.

[Aluja89]

I don't mind it tbh, but I'd like to get rewarded for having put an arch on my back SE.

[Asari5]

would kinda be a good thing to teach people better how to handle their class and the mechanics. but tbh i dont think it would help much if they dont get something they want from it. people are lazy and they want something, the two things i know about people (most people not all)

i mean, for a long time i thought it would be obvious to look into new skills you learn. like... read EVERY word of it. and to use a few seconds to think about how you use your skills. the game cant really teach you that, can it?
just two days ago i joined a lvl 57 dungeon in progress, they were at the endboss.... the whm ONLY used Cure III didnt matter if the players were in range, didnt matter how many of them needed heal.

yeah the whm was new, so i was patient and gave him pointers (didnt really help much though) but come on, how can someone has the idea of using just one single skill when you have so many?
things like this shattered my mind xD

[Mixelplix]

New Player (about a month or so) still working on MSQ level 69 White Mage. A few thoughts I had when I read this thread:

-More than a couple of raids I have been on have come with vets throwing a tantrum when a lot of sprouts are in their 1st time run and cause a wipe

-I watch strat videos before I go in, but it does not prepare me fully for the actual timing of the fight

-As a healer, my main job is to heal. I have no confidence to predict when damage spikes are coming to balance my mana usage, so I cut back on dps until I can run things a few times

-There are a lot of new players (which I think is a very very good thing for an older game). Vets need to understand that it is all brand new to many of us.

-Some people will not watch strats ahead of time, fact of life

-Helpful encouragement from vets goes a long way to player retention

-Timed runs, like WoW mythic plus, are a terrible idea