Please implement something to teach players how to play

[SomeRandomHuman]

It's simple, they think they are playing on a basic level. They think that because they haven't been kicked enough. When you have a tank who is single pulling, a healer that is spam healing, or DPS single targeting pack of mobs you should tell them how to play, kick them or leave the dungeon yourself. These are community standards that you guys want to fix, it is not an issue directly related to the game but with the community itself. You shouldn't be asking the GMs to fix the things that are wrong in your community, they can't do that and they won't even try it.

I've never said it's the GM team's responsibility. I've said earlier in this thread that the community needs to address this actually. Just trying to stomp out the resistance where we can first.

[Roeshel]

I don't how I feel about this to be honest. When you start the game as a new player you are asked if you want to visit the job guide for your class and you have the guide assigned to your action bar. The problem is not with the game not teaching enough. As long as you can read English and willingness to learn how to play you should be fine. What you are asking for is higher community standards regarding gameplay.

[van_arn]

I used to be big on having Square add stuff to teach players how to play, but it’s clear they don’t want to do that anymore. The game has tooltips and a mountain of resources to teach, but nothing in the game is going to force people to learn no matter how it’s placed.

At one time I tight solo fights could act as progress blockers, but easy/very easy difficulty setting options killed that entirely.

I suppose the only option left would be to have a progress-blocking gate fight in the leadup to savage or the extreme trial series that would be difficult enough to keep truly undesirables out, but not so difficult people would complain.

I take that back; people complained a 4-button fight as Hien that could be cleared without pressing any buttons was too hard in Stormblood. There’s no salvaging this; if people want to learn, they’ll learn. Kick them if you don’t want them 61+.

[Caurcas]

Alot of words defending players not hitting the right, glowy buttons. We exist in a COMMUNITY.

[Shurrikhan]

I'm not worried about who benefits though, I'm concerned with who gets excluded. How many players lose access to this game because a few players on the higher end can't stand an occasional "slow" DF or have to kick someone?

That's a solid question. The way I would like to see such implemented -- and other proponents may disagree with me -- would not cost anyone access.

Let's take an extreme but basic example to start. Let's say there's someone who actually needs the Very Easy mode in MSQ -- rather than simply entering, getting the laundry while they die and then returning on the reduced difficulty to fight the mob at lower HP and no longer need to dodge most attacks, saving actual time at the computer to clear that fight.

Rather than immediately offering a Very Easy mode that merely trivializes the mechanics through rescaling, I would offer an Echo variant by which a secondary level of telegraphs, perhaps with more explicit hints, are given to provide a bit more time and clarity for the intended action. It might even outright pause the fight until one has activated their Duty Action key as intended, or slow time until one starts moving.

Such would be easier for those who were confused by what wasn't quite intuitive enough, or were fumbling with keys or trying to access their Duty Action, but it'd still draw your attention to the mechanic. These symbols you saw earlier and still see now (amid a bit more indication) mean this. If one fails even then, the game will tell you what killed you and what to do, explicitly, again calling attention to the symbols being introduced or given reminder of.

That's it. It's taking the less lazy and careless road in design. Rather than just turning the knob, you actually further scaffold the intent, and set your solo content with long-term intent in mind rather than just means of filling out /played hours.

Does that mean more effort required on the devs part to let more players fully into their game? Yes. Not significantly, but yes, of course. But look at who primarily benefits from the Easy and Very Easy modes as given, and what benefits were lost to the alleged beneficiaries, and you'll see that the policies implemented are not working as intended.

Don't expect people who feel you're trying to kick them out of the entire game to take it well though and I'm pretty sure you can kick people without telling them they suck first.

This is actually the pivotal point. Given XIV's CM policies, it is safer to kick a person without having said anything, thus giving no context at all that could be construed one way or another that might give rise to action against the kicker, than to have attempted to help a person and kick them only after they start cursing out everyone in the party and refuse to move for having been asked to use their AoE. Anyone offering advice to someone who is falling behind is taking a risk because they do not want to exclude that person or just generally want to see the playerbase improve. But how possible is that if any comment whatsoever, however tactful, however earnest, however good-humored, is treated inherently as an attack?

That is the trench being increasingly dug for those players, to whom Yoshi-P's policies and adjustments just keep handing fresh shovels.

[Rinhi]

[very good post inside]

that's a good proposed change, though I fear you'd be getting comments on how "the game is playing for me" if they'd implement something like that

[Shurrikhan]

that's a good proposed change, though I fear you'd be getting comments on how "the game is playing for me" if they'd implement something like that

But that's the thing. Apart from pausing before a Duty Action that must be used not to wipe, etc. (i.e., teaching you how and when to use it on the first time), it's not remotely playing for you (just... making things more explicit/obvious), and replaces that which would allow you to just faceroll through it having learned nothing.

[Rinhi]

But that's the thing. Apart from pausing before a Duty Action that must be used not to wipe, etc. (i.e., teaching you how and when to use it on the first time), it's not playing for you, and replaces that which would allow you to just faceroll through it having learned nothing.

pausing the game is the thing; you lose control over your character and are "forced" to do something you might not want to do, but you need to do it to progress. some people (that I know) would complain about this taking control away and how the game is playing for them, even if it's nothing more than a tutorial mission or something that pops up when you've failed once or twice!
hell, a friend of mine dropped rocket league because the """tutorial""" in it is mandatory and you can't control your car in it when it's basically just a crash course for the buttons to press
some people will complain about and blame everything and everyone but themselves, is what I'm trying to say, so even with a perfect tutorial and content designed to train them to play at an average level, many of those would still complain about something

[Shurrikhan]

pausing the game is the thing; you lose control over your character and are "forced" to do something you might not want to do, but you need to do it to progress.

We're talking "hit the button or you literally die then and there". If the only alternative to brief loss of control over your character (pause to use DA) is loss of control over character (death, and then having to restart)... the pause seems preferable, no?

And again, that's only replacing the Easy mode. You still see this only if you've already died (e.g., to that mechanic you didn't DA in time), so it wouldn't be intrusive to those who aren't already running into a wall (and even then only as intrusive as, say, a ladder would be).

[ForteNightshade]

...How did you even find this much straw?

The topic is about reducing community gatekeeping or what would incentivize such by having the game itself -- NOT the community -- better facilitate growth and preparedness.

That the community is thinking about how that might be done is no different than the various other QoL features we've theorized, asked for, and gotten select parts of. That does not make those in-game features somehow a matter of jumping through community hoops, no matter how badly you slant them.

Because Ralph's entire stance is literally the barest of possible minimums is perfectly okay. He has openly defeated players using outdated gear in Savage because hey, they cleared. It doesn't matter they only cleared on the backs of other players doing all the work. Caring in the slightest about your performance makes you a "tryhard elitist". It's all absolute nonsense and better left ignored.