Please implement something to teach players how to play

[Wavaryen]

This is what I don't understand. You have tough content you could do. Why do you want all content to be tougher?

Why is it that content that lets people play how they want, and not need to be "good". You want to take that away from people. So you can have MORE content for yourself while taking away content that is design with these people in mind?


I already got the answer to the problem. Like 4ish pages ago. If you want players to be better. Just let people duo Trusts, and it can be used as a teaching tool for people who want it. Instead, you got people want players to be PUNISHED for not meeting a standard.


You all care so much only because you want content that is harder and you want your DF runs to be faster. It has nothing to do with players getting good for that player sake. It has everything to do with you wanting people to play at a certain standard so the content gets balance around it. That will NEVER happen.

By effectively later patching out mechanics or making them irrelevant through massive reductions to a fight's requirements? Where did I see that in Super Mario back in the day, Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect, or any single-player FF game? Hmm...

That list is flawed. None of them games are a service like MMORPGS are.

[Shurrikhan]

That list is flawed. None of them games are a service like MMORPGS are.

Then, I repeat, what is it about "being a video game" that necessitates that fights be hugely nerfed the moment they require some novel thinking?

Day one, Steps of Faith was not outright difficult. It was merely different. Following its own very simple tasks, the fight was no harder than the trials before or after it.

[Faafetai]

Reminder that this is a VIDEO GAME, not the source of your self worth, this obsession with video game ""skill"" and high end content from some people screams a lot of negative things about one's ego.

Hint: Video games are designed to be beaten.

A video game is suppose to be fun and played not watching netflix while playing cookie clicker. I may be playing an entirely different game, but if someone is just auto attacking within content what is even the point of paying a subscription. This is literally things I have seen when playing. Why would people pay for a game they do not wish to play? I wish people would be courteous and go into /say /afk at least they would be honest about what they are doing.

[MiaShino]

Jeeeeez this thread is going from discussion to ouch my brain to living breathing meme in record breaking time.

Some people commenting here just need to play a fricken single player game with cheat codes on. I would hate (love) to see how they deal with actually challenging content in anything. I recently discovered a term most amusing "baby rage" and I believe it adequately describes what would happen.

Group C from my previous post, having a stroke because they want it their way but we cannot have it ours because they cannot have it their way because we want it our way because they want it their way. Perhaps I am having a stroke but this is the only discussion even happening anymore. I am not surprised at'all only mildly amused. One 47 page long point of reference any time this topic arises. Waaaahh you just want the thing because you are selfish let us have the thing instead because "we are not selfish".

Reality casts introspection > introspection misses

[Kleeya]

In the same kind of thing the OP is asking for, if only there was something to teach people how to drive their car properly irl... Something that could be called a "driving licence". With that, i would never be worried to cross the road of misbehaving drivers again ! Because there is absolutly no way that countless people, once they are done with their lessons, tests and tutorials, will start to forget them, or even worse : ignore them, to do what they want instead.

Irony aside, if underperforming players are making you so sick, then you are probably better off opening a "high dps, wall to wall pulls, no zero dps healer" group in PF.

[Faafetai]

In the same kind of thing the OP is asking for, if only there was something to teach people how to drive their car properly irl... Something that could be called a "driving licence". With that, i would never be worried to cross the road of misbehaving drivers again ! Because there is absolutly no way that countless people, once they are done with their lessons, tests and tutorials, will start to forget them, or even worse : ignore them, to do what they want instead.

Irony aside, if underperforming players are making you so sick, then you are probably better off opening a "high dps, wall to wall pulls, no zero dps healer" group in PF.

The OP was asking if there could be something implemented to help teach people who wish to learn. Maybe to fix the early content to not be so outdated. Somehow this devolved into people who just wish to stand there auto attacking arguing that the people telling them they need to use w,a,s,d to move are patronizing them and everyone who does not let them grief are grouped into the 'just want to do wall to wall speed running strats' category or something of the like. I just want people to be courteous, and to think about the others they are queuing with. There is a huge difference between 'underperforming players' and 'just doing what you want because heeee heee it is making everyone so mad, I am making everyone unable to complete the duty.'

The streamer who did this is a perfect example, but their tune changed when they played with their friends and wished to learn the savage fights. It makes me wonder if numerous people in this thread are doing the same thing and wish to not be called out for purposely using 'play style' as a way of being able to troll others who are just playing the game, who did not agree to be trolled because 'meh, I just don't feel like doing anything this dungeon'. Why even queue if not to troll or grief other people when they have no way of fighting back most of the time. There is literally nothing in the game explaining how to report or vote kick people in the game.

[MiaShino]

The OP was asking if there could be something implemented to help teach people who wish to learn.

I am beginning to believe this is indeed lost cause. You can lead a FF14 player to water and it will drown its self.

[Yeol]

Reminder that this is a VIDEO GAME, not the source of your self worth, this obsession with video game ""skill"" and high end content from some people screams a lot of negative things about one's ego.

Games are designed for EVERYONE.
From people with disabilities to the hardcore players.

This topic is to discuss the issue of player performance. Teach players how to play. Why? Because the vast majority of the players are bad. That's not coming from me, or the OP, it came from the development team themselves. So don't come down telling us that we're setting our own bar and expectations.

How's the development team handling this?
- Watering down job complexity.
- Nerfing content.
- Creating even easier content.
They even added easy and very easy mode to MSQ.

Players who have caught up with this are not pleased and are asking for an alternative solution. Instead of making things waaaay too easy. They can implement something to help players become better at playing the game. So the development team doesn't need to hold back when designing jobs and duties.

We keep going back to that one suggestion which is: make content harder.
I myself disagree with this. There are alternative ways to help players learn without making content harder.

Now I hope this thread starts bringing up ideas other than discussing that one idea that the majority seem to disagree with.

[Ralph2449]

Games are designed for EVERYONE.
From people with disabilities to the hardcore players.

You seem to be confused, I never said games arent for everyone, I said people whose ego is based on video game performance because they base their self worth on digital video game achievements are really unhealthy and toxic to any community, you can see that by simply the way they type and how much disdain they have about a few things such as "nerfing content" or making rewards more "accessible". The attitude and behavior of such people is really easy to detect exactly because their self worth is based on something so fragile and unstable.

Any kind of person can enjoy video games, the problem is some because they have no achievements in real life OBSESS over "hardcore" video game content and like to pretend as if they achieved some great real life achievement when literally the game is designed to be beaten, do you think a real opponent will give you a big safe area when they attack you? No the game is literally designed to be beaten, it isnt some ultra great glorious elite real life achievement, but because certain elitist depend on said achievements they have overhyped video game high end content to the point people think even WoW mythic raids are somekind of ultra hard sweaty content when the reality is it is simply harder heroic, not some epic life changing achievement.

These people are the problem and sadly they are many in the gaming community for obvious reasons.

And like i said previously, making utility useful aka making it stop you from dying shouldnt be considered making the content harder, if not using utility means you are dying, you are simply reminding people to use certain toolkit it is often ignored cuz 90% of mmorpg content is just shooting stuff.

If a game's content was 90% making the right choice in a puzzle and 10% was combat that didnt matter cuz even if you just pressed 1 button things would still die, of course people wouldnt bother to care much about combat and would mainly focus on solving puzzles. Reminding people of an aspect they rarely bother with shouldnt be considered making the game "harder".

[Shurrikhan]

To the people who want to teach, and harder content in the base game, and dailies. Do you all understand just what that would lead too? I don't think you do. Players will always game the system, and will always take the shortest route, and or gatekeep players that does not meet your standards. Do you understand just how toxic the game would become? Wow mythic is proof of that, but lets not even talk wow. We seen in this game itself how people gate classes before, and what players do when harder content becomes the normal.

1. Teaching does not, nor does a desire to teach, suddenly cause people to game the system or take the shortest routes possible; they already do. Nothing in that would change.
   
   
2. Having harder content available or made subtly more normal in the game experience would not suddenly cause people to game the system or take the shortest routes possible; they already do. However, there would be change, in that taking the shortest route has less to be gained in the short term and less to be lost in the long term, as the ability to leech (i.e., to knowingly underperform or knowingly neglect what was situated as something that you should learn in order to perform at an average level) will have decreased.
   
   
3. "Dailies" are already in the game. I have no idea why you're bringing them up, but alright, let's take a look at what harm dailies can cause, which is actually higher that either of the other items you've mentioned. Dailies add a completion bonus. The thing about completion bonuses is that completion does not require optional elements. Even if those optional elements were balanced to be a real choice for those doing the content repeatedly, anyone doing that content only once per day -- and for whom other daily bonuses will have greater efficiency than doing repeats of that first piece of content -- faces a drastic loss in efficiency for doing those optional elements. Such can badly limit design, especially at the much more casual end of things.
   
   
4. Judging from the misinformation in your previous posts regarding Mythic in WoW, I severely doubt you can take it as proof of anything except that what you have no experience with is difficult for you to explain.
   
   
5. We see people "gate classes" when those who do not know, or expect those likely to join will not know, how to play their own job at the given level in turn insist on whatever advantages they can, be that party composition or item level, in order to carry them through it or make up the likely shortfall with minimal need to disband or replace. You may note that when players (have reason to) actually trust one another's competencies, that is neither necessary nor common.
   
   
6. I get that you intended for "when harder content becomes the normal" to ring of something like "when the sky falls", but

• no one here has asked that Extremes or Savage suddenly replace Normal, only that there be more that is capable of integrated, situated, and meaningful feedback across the pre-level-cap experience as to better bridge that eventual gap between the likes of leveling dungeons done at a crawl and Extreme trials -- perhaps including some mild hurdles of clear intent -- and...
• you're forgetting the whole idea here, that this would be to teach players, such that something between the likes of Extreme and Normal, for instance, would not feel harder than Normal itself does currently. The only way for content to perceivably harder by endgame, to the average player who's benefited from the changes suggested, is to have broken from the premise you're critiquing.

So here in your perfect FF14 you gatekeep players and have an intense program that teaches them. Ok, Now picture DF content that you do everything. Balance around that. Do some of you understand just how tedious the game would be? If we are going to grind for months on the same thing, it being mind numbing easy is MUCH better than it requiring full attention. If it required focus all the time, you understand just how much worse the grind would be?

How many different ways must one reiterate that mind-numbing content is mind-numbing? That is never a good thing. Just as irredeemably panic-inducing is not, itself, ever a good thing.

There can be a cathartic element to the prior or something thrilling to the latter, but those are separate elements. If there was something cathartic or relaxing in a given piece of content that was inseparable from it being mind-numbing, I might agree with you, but there isn't. The mind-numbing content is instead just... less. Of anything.

I should hope the devs at least have their heads screwed on straight to know if they added teaching things within the game it would be tailored to those learning and hopefully even the content they wish to do. I am assuming that was how this thread started. I would think they would just fix the early class quests to actually allow for you to test abilities to know what they do rather than kill opo opos a million times and light a torch to summon more opo opos, this just taught me someone on the dev team really hated opo opos for some reason.

This, honestly.

Job flavor text: "Oh neat! Can't wait to see how the two archery styles diverge and which I'll kind of fit into more."

Job objectives: "...Oh, play-time inflation that has no connection to or synergy with the story except to be the... 13th reason as of yet for me to cross the river above the Bannock. Great... I mean, I guess the area's pretty, sure, but... isn't this path of archery butts supposed to have some intent to it -- something in keeping with the lessons the prior dialogue hinted at?"