Please implement something to teach players how to play

[Feidam]

- Tanks who just sit there and pull 1 group at a time.

This a player community thing not a game mechanic. And opens a whole debate on efficiency, speed runs etc. The game was not designed around mass pulls. Their current balance and gear system do allow for this to happen though with good use of abilities and certain gear threshold. However, most players do take advantage of this being possible to speed up dungeons runs. Whether a tank does big or or small pulls doesn’t other me. But honestly I’d rather have a mix by design. Some large packs some small packs that hit like a freight train and require more planning.

[RethDaron]

Very rarely do I have a party with someone that doesn't listen to advice and is so bad we can't complete the content.

I think OP is exaggerating.

[ReynTime]

Pretty sure they don't feel pressured to consider that given their most passionate fanbase (JAPAN) doesn't need or miss having an official parser.

[raelgun]

Pretty sure they don't feel pressured to consider that given their most passionate fanbase (JAPAN) doesn't need or miss having an official parser.

Their raiders certainly use it, Yoshi P has shared a screenshot of a JP world first clear in a savage raid which literally had ACT running.

[Caurcas]

Yoshi also has been on record stating that they expect strong players to carry the weaker ones. That's not a healthy mind set.

[Shurrikhan]

Yoshi also has been on record stating that they expect strong players to carry the weaker ones. That's not a healthy mind set.

That depends on the extent of it, or what is meant by "carry" or "weaker".

For instance, are they truly "weaker" in some inherent/habitual sense, or just weaker in that particular fight because it's their first time? I have no issues carrying a player who is at least putting in the effort, or whose mistakes are fully understandable.

I imagine there are ways by which the translated quote's intent could remain within what is reasonable. Do I suspect that was, in fact, the intent... Not so much, but I doubt he was giving full license to grab others by the heel and insist on a tow.

The larger issue to me is that it slates any failure to learn or care to learn as solely a community problem, which just smacks of blaming your students for not understanding a poorly implemented lesson.

The link provided was an English interpretation of a LiveLetter from 2017. Let's look at a LiveLetter from 2020, shall we?

"We won't be adding an official parser."

"It will turn everything toxic, we won't implement one. EVER."

To be fair, he also seems to have little idea what he's talking about it regard to parsers, given the plethora of MMOs in which they have become normal in play and have ultimately reduced toxicity -- in its various forms of blame-tossing, finger-pointing, near-immediate disbandment upon a single or second failed run, or kicks on basis of suspicion alone, etc.

Pretty sure they don't feel pressured to consider that given their most passionate fanbase (JAPAN) doesn't need or miss having an official parser.

Why would you assume a whole community has less use for transparency or conveniently analyzable information? No. The JP side of things uses ACT plentifully, too. And, doubtless, FFlogs' analysis tools.

[Caurcas]

That depends on the extent of it, or what is meant by "carry" or "weaker".

For instance, are they truly "weaker" in some inherent/habitual sense, or just weaker in that particular fight because it's their first time? I have no issues carrying a player who is at least putting in the effort, or whose mistakes are fully understandable.

I imagine there are ways by which the translated quote's intent could remain within what is reasonable. Do I suspect that was, in fact, the intent... Not so much, but I doubt he was giving full license to grab others by the heel and insist on a tow.



To be fair, he also seems to have little idea what he's talking about it regard to parsers, else the plethora of MMOs if which they have become normal in play and have ultimately reduced toxicity -- in its various forms of blame-tossing, finger-pointing, near-immediate disbandment upon a single or second failed run, or kicks on basis of suspicion alone, etc.

If I recall correctly it was from an interview discussing fight design and possible harder 4 man content with Yoshi's response being that in 24 man and 8 man content personal responsibility is mitigated and those fights can by and large be carried off the backs of stronger players. This fear of shunting more responsibility onto players in harder 4 man content is why they are hesitant to produce that content.

[SturmChurro]

If I recall correctly it was from an interview discussing fight design and possible harder 4 man content with Yoshi's response being that in 24 man and 8 man content personal responsibility is mitigated and those fights can by and large be carried off the backs of stronger players. This fear of shunting more responsibility onto players in harder 4 man content is why they are hesitant to produce that content.

More difficult 4 player content would be great, it's really too bad. This kind of content would presumably be easier to organize as well. Their battle team is stretched thin, so I guess they are just going to continue catering to these players. It's an issue of this or that in terms of battle content, and it sucks that we cannot get more content that would cater to players that actually put a bit of effort in their play.

[Faafetai]

More difficult 4 player content would be great, it's really too bad. This kind of content would presumably be easier to organize as well. Their battle team is stretched thin, so I guess they are just going to continue catering to these players. It's an issue of this or that in terms of battle content, and it sucks that we cannot get more content that would cater to players that actually put a bit of effort in their play.

This really bums me out. I always am reminded of when an npc died in my archer or bard quest early on in my journey and seeing you could put the duty on easy, very easy, normal, but there were no higher difficulty to practice the class. I know people struggled with content, there are some who do not wish to even try and troll others, but there are the people who log in to the game every day looking to learn, looking for a challenge. The millions of tutorial pop ups are great and all, but I suck and reading things without context sometimes(okay all of the time) all of it kind of bleeds together especially when coupled with ARR exposition dumping.

I will never forget the drk in a prog group for Nidhogg extreme who posted the wiki guide at the beginning of the fight. I can't memorize an entire wiki guide and assimilate the knowledge, and I wished to prog the fight not read the wiki. Though the same drk must have deemed 'shirk' not a worthy skill and removed it from their bar like the manliest of men, this fight was made harder by those not playing well and gave me a way to work my brain to come up with a solution to tank swapping with them. Something I know to be true with this and other content, is if they all knew what to do, the fight would go super fast and I would have learned nothing. When a boss phase skips everything in a dungeon or trial how I am meant to, as a player who wishes to learn, know a phase that never happens until we get johnny no combo and mistress aesthetic animation art snob. This really should not be the case. I should not be wishing for prog teams to learn new things about fights.

I know it will never happen, and I can already go into fights via party finder minimum ilvl sync into a Trial to learn, but the fact that you can brute force through Garuda extreme with a team who doesn't say anything, rapid fire pulls, and beat their heads into a wall without speaking until the echo lets them phase skip and survive mechanics is just freaking sad. Sometimes I truly wonder if I am playing with humans or machines. This is not without the millions of times I have enjoyed content, but alot about this whole mentality, even square is catering to, just really bums me out. Just go make a mobile ff14 game and be done with it like Aion did, though they just released Aion classic as well, so their dumbing down clearly was not paying out anymore.

I will await patiently, and if they ruin all of the classes further, and dumb things down more and not even add something nice for those who wish for a challenge I suppose it will be time to move on from ff14. I have not been keeping up with the news but if there is no deep dungeon in endwalker I shall be sad. At the least, Swtor is releasing an update, they dumbed down some of the stats in that game, but it has some challenge group content maybe with the update there will be more people on to queue with.

[Pandie_Goodies]

As much as I like to agree on teaching people how to play the game in better ways. It's just the issue is there is plenty of it, it just comes down to two important aspects. Paying attention to what the game gives you and reading the stuff that pops up . Most of the time people don't do one, the other, or either. People would rather just play the game with no care in the world and want to go about it in their own way even if it becomes a deterrant for players that know everything about the game already or people that do pay attention to the game to know it better. It just comes down to trying to guide them as best as you can cause sometimes people just don't pay attention to alot of things. Heck I was pretty bad at paying attention myself at one point but I forced myself to step up so I can get better at the game, that and I got help.

I however think the biggest issue is alot of mentors actually not mentoring, people treat the burger king crown like a badge of bragging rights and don't actually help people, It's something I see countless times when there is obvious sprouts in need of learning things and they actually type in chat on what they are doing wrong and the mentors do nothing, or act like sprouts themselves. The issue is very prevelent when the entire community makes fun of people that are mentors as well because of that fact cause they ain't doing their dang job as a mentor.