Please implement something to teach players how to play

[kaynide]

At the end of the day, SQueenix wants... needs as many people as possible playing FFXIV that could potentially enjoy themselves here within the style of game that it is. That means "good enough is good enough" will be true in many cases, and that bar will of course be lower than those that demand "skilled PUGs" for their randomized groups.

I think this is the key point that some people just don’t get. Some people see this game that needs to be more demanding of skill or harder to challenge players. The problem here is to the devs, this is “Disneyland Online”. You hang out with friends, you wait in line to go down the same path everyone else does to see the pirates..or haunted mansion..or abandoned mines. (I expect space mountain next!). Pepper in some minis you can pick up at the souvenir store and you’re set.

That is all. This is a virtual theme park. Priority is keeping the vast majority of guests satisfied and wanting to come back. That’s it.

[Enjuden]

Bluntly, it pretty much is a revolution. MSQ was gatekept for a time with the Steps of Faith until people cried about not getting stepped on, or reading dialogue boxes in front of them so it got nerfed into the floor. Heavensward in particular was an exceedingly difficult to play expansion because the floor got raised about six levels from ARR. Was fun for some but not for a whole lot of people, including me and I raid regularly.

The only thing I can think of is having the trust dungeon be the bare minimum line, with xyz boss having an enrage mechanic. Enrages do need to be a little less forgiving if you want that in dungeons, though enrage is honestly a boring mechanic for players in general. Even a stricter time limit on solo trials would be a decent upgrade to skill floor, though we will have to see. It is a difficult question because there has been nearly six years of coddling to even lower than bare minimum effort both by community and by the devs themselves.

Note that I'm not saying all content should not have been nerfed. The apology raid in Heavensward was rightly there because the game was exceedingly difficult then with the new mechanics being introduced on top of difficulty with optimization.

[Vahlnir]

Bluntly, it pretty much is a revolution. MSQ was gatekept for a time with the Steps of Faith until people cried about not getting stepped on, or reading dialogue boxes in front of them so it got nerfed into the floor. Heavensward in particular was an exceedingly difficult to play expansion because the floor got raised about six levels from ARR. Was fun for some but not for a whole lot of people, including me and I raid regularly.

To be fair, the raiding experience at the start of HW was unpleasant for many. Gordias broke up a lot of groups. I think they learned then and there that making things stupid difficult doesn't equal acceptable participation levels. Everything we've seen since then reflects that, aside from Ultimate. Ultimate is fine though. It's for the most hardcore players who really, REALLY want a challenge.

[Broken_Wind]

Hey all! Sorry I dropped out of the conversation!

Overall, I think I'm just done with this idea.

It seems like this is a community culture thing and what I'm asking is akin to asking for a revolution.

I'm just wanting something in game to nudge people to improve. It seems like this is an impossibility, at least for now. Every time there is a good idea (subjective), there will be the side that's concerned about peoples feelings getting hurt.

Don't get me wrong, that's a valid concern, but it just leads to no progress. I don't know. Seems to be an extremely nuanced thing with multiple variables that I cant possibly account for.

Overall, yes the game could do a better job of teaching player the nuances of the game (for examples: tank cooldowns, interrupts, stuns)
Players should be expected to at least read their class abilities and know about their buffs, combos and procs.
And there is nothing wrong with coaching players such as suggesting that if there are 3 or more mobs your AoE rotation will do more damage

Should players be expected to visit Balance discord for their optimal rotation and practice their opener? Of course not. That is for savage/ultimate content, not for roulettes.
Should tanks be expected to pull wall to wall if they aren't comfortable with it? Of course not. However, if they are pulling single packs there is nothing wrong with the healer speaking up and saying 'if you want, you can pull more, Ive got you covered'.

But just because someone is 80 and in a roulette doesn't mean they have done that dungeon in their given role before.
And I will NEVER support speed run type content, ever. If you are in a rush, don't do roulettes. This should be taught more than anything else mentioned in this thread.

[Krotoan]

Seems to be an extremely nuanced thing with multiple variables that I cant possibly account for.

Welcome to designing games for people other than you. Now just remember this any time you think that some game developer has a "wrong" idea and you know exactly how to fix it.


if we can get everyone to realize this maybe there will be a little more patience in the gaming world.

[kaynide]

Hey all! Sorry I dropped out of the conversation!

Overall, I think I'm just done with this idea.

It seems like this is a community culture thing and what I'm asking is akin to asking for a revolution.

I'm just wanting something in game to nudge people to improve. It seems like this is an impossibility, at least for now. Every time there is a good idea (subjective), there will be the side that's concerned about peoples feelings getting hurt.

Don't get me wrong, that's a valid concern, but it just leads to no progress. I don't know. Seems to be an extremely nuanced thing with multiple variables that I cant possibly account for.

Nothing wrong with asking! And nothing wrong with a suggestion here.

Personally, I think the easiest way to encourage better play is to offer a carrot.

So, imagine “time trial” version of dungeons, where objective is to clear certain dungeons, at sync’d iLVL in a really close amount of time. Typically a dungeon allows for an hour, so how about a 20 min timer? Or 30, but with diminishing rewards?

Then make it so it can’t be done via duty finder (gotta pre-make your party), and then choose from like 5 or so in a weekly rotation. (Can clear each once?)

Obviously they’d have to tweak the allowable time, but certainly 30 minutes would be enough. Basically it should be tight enough that you would need to pull off rotations excellently to clear.

Reward? Currency for mounts, minis etc. I dunno, maybe have rotating rewards or even the currency is only good the week you earn it. (Like Khloe’ book)


Hell, plan B just make it “Khloe’s Book of Scary Stories” and work it like her weekly thing except either reduced iLVL or really tight amount of time. Again, non DF.

[SannaR]

Hey all! Sorry I dropped out of the conversation!

Overall, I think I'm just done with this idea.

It seems like this is a community culture thing and what I'm asking is akin to asking for a revolution.

I'm just wanting something in game to nudge people to improve. It seems like this is an impossibility, at least for now. Every time there is a good idea (subjective), there will be the side that's concerned about peoples feelings getting hurt.

Don't get me wrong, that's a valid concern, but it just leads to no progress. I don't know. Seems to be an extremely nuanced thing with multiple variables that I cant possibly account for.

Sadly any time someone brings up this want those who are opposed to it tend to act to wanting a skill level of the NA and EU player base to be higher than the equivalent of walking over a bar that's literally on the floor is that those who want a way to bring that skill level up is that we want everyone to need to be at the skill level of someone trying out for a spot on a world first raid team. Or that people want to look down their collective noses at the new players. That just wanting the player base to at least use every skill/spell they have at least once is seen as an elitist highly toxic mindset.

As I've said I would love occasional how well are you doing skill wise checks. Heck I would just love it if there was a higher level of situational awareness of the player base. As for me that's near the root of the problem. Where people don't notice what's happening around them in a fight. If everyone and their 2nd cousin is running to an area or using an ability like vrill ect that maybe everyone else isn't being a complete troll and you should follow. I wished people would ask questions if there's something they don't understand. Or say they're new. Vets aren't mind readers, just because the game says there's a new person doesn't mean that 100% says they're a new player. It could be an alt for all we know.

[Ursa_Vonfiebryd]

Welcome to designing games for people other than you. Now just remember this any time you think that some game developer has a "wrong" idea and you know exactly how to fix it.


if we can get everyone to realize this maybe there will be a little more patience in the gaming world.

It amazes me all of the noise over how the game is being paired down or catering to the lowest common denominator and yet when the game hands them a trainwreck party where you really have to pull out the stops just to clear, that's too much work.

-I mean, I get it. It's annoying when you're just trying to get shit done but I'd rather deal with that kind of difficulty than the extremely convoluted mechanics that make Savage what it is. Give me duelling tanks who cleave the raid, ice mages, incidental healers, melee who don't know what those red circles mean. An Alliance-worth of new players that think mechanics are for cars.

You'll never see me touch Savage content while it's relevant. I don't need to. Duty Finder is my Savage. Long may it reign.

[Rinhi]

It amazes me all of the noise over how the game is being paired down or catering to the lowest common denominator and yet when the game hands them a trainwreck party where you really have to pull out the stops just to clear, that's too much work.

-I mean, I get it. It's annoying when you're just trying to get shit done but I'd rather deal with that kind of difficulty than the extremely convoluted mechanics that make Savage what it is. Give me duelling tanks who cleave the raid, ice mages, incidental healers, melee who don't know what those red circles mean. An Alliance-worth of new players that think mechanics are for cars.

You'll never see me touch Savage content while it's relevant. I don't need to. Duty Finder is my Savage. Long may it reign.

I'm sure you can see the difference between willingly signing up for and seeking hard content versus signing up for easy, casual content but it's hard or even impossible to do because players at level 80s have absolutely zero idea how to play their class