Please implement something to teach players how to play

[Seera1024]

Because the game is way too easy now. You can just mash your controller/keyboard and stumble through every piece of content barring EX/Savage.

There hasn’t been a challenging dungeon in years but the decision to put them all behind MSQ made it even worse. You can’t scale the difficulty too high because then you’d lock players out of finishing the story. So they’re all absolute face roll stuff.

If there’s no in game indicator you’re doing something “wrong” you’ll never be prompted to reevaluate how to get better.

A major problem with putting those indicators in group content is that when a player hits that wall, it affects more than just the player in question.

Meaning 1 or more of the following could happen:

1. Player with the problem assumes it's someone else. Either due to ego or ignorance

2. Player gets kicked from the dungeon by others who want to go faster - meaning the player doesn't get the ability to learn. Maybe the next group will be able to carry them past that part without any trouble.

3. Other players are impacted. Some don't mind with this happens. Others mind. And those groups don't tend to mix well.

A better place would be in the solo duties in the MSQ and/or the story quests. Where the player can't shift the blame to other players. Where a player can spend the time to get better without fear of being kicked because they wiped again to same mechanic. Where it does not impact other players.

[TaleraRistain]

2. Player gets kicked from the dungeon by others who want to go faster - meaning the player doesn't get the ability to learn. Maybe the next group will be able to carry them past that part without any trouble.

This one especially. I can't name the number of times where I've been in a party where everyone has at least cleared (so no noob message), we have issues, I offer help and we work things out, and I hear "Thank you! No one ever explained that before!"

There are so many people who complain about "the bads" but they don't bother to do anything to help them. And they hide behind the "We can't tell them anything, we'll get reported!" excuse, but you know what? I've been helping people for 7 years now and I haven't gone to the gaol a single time. I just actually try to help people and come from a position of sharing knowledge, not acting like I know better than them. And people are very receptive when the hand someone is reaching out is open and accepting instead of a fist ready to beat them down.

[lezard21]

At the end of the day though this is all hopeful dreaming. Squarenix is a japanese company and these problems don't exist at all in the japanese data centers. Not only are the japanese community overall better players (as demonstrated in the Savage clear rates) but also they are a lot less self centered and a lot more respectful of other people's time than the American community. There is a reason why we have the "you don't pay my sub" meme here.

It almost motivates me to try and learn japanese in order to move over to one of their data centers.

[Shurrikhan]

these problems don't exist at all in the japanese data centers.

<snip>

It almost motivates me to try and learn japanese in order to move over to one of their data centers.

If you had learned the language, you'd know otherwise.

unless the bottleneck is a complete jerk and toxic as heck... why kick from a 20 minute or so dungeon , just finish and move on.

Never said I would. It hardly seems time-efficient in most cases, except on the rare occasion their afk stops or arrogant ravings made the run slower than a tank-less 3-man. That, sadly, has happened on occasion.

I only noted the discrepancy between one "compelled" playstyle being effective only under active measures (reading the chat and actually giving a damn about others in one's party) from the person the playstyle is being requested of and the other being effective at all times except under those active measures from that person. And, of course, the prior then being called a breach of ToA, but not the latter. Such seemed more than a bit hypocritical.

[Kes13a]

If you had learned the language, you'd know otherwise.



Never said I would. It hardly seems time-efficient in most cases, except on the rare occasion their afk stops or arrogant ravings made the run slower than a tank-less 3-man. That, sadly, has happened on occasion.

I only noted the discrepancy between one "compelled" playstyle being effective only under active measures (reading the chat and actually giving a damn about others in one's party) from the person the playstyle is being requested of and the other being effective at all times except under those active measures from that person. And, of course, the prior then being called a breach of ToA, but not the latter. Such seemed more than a bit hypocritical.

oh, yeah if they are afking and raving lol, definitely need to be somewhere else, I agree. and yeah, seen that too.. or, a tank that from the word go, pulled everything, then left the party... seen that before too, the rest of us were "did that really just happen?"

[linayar]

One is a request that the bottlenecking individual follow majority preferences, at least to the extent possible for that individual. The other is a literal barrier, penetrable only by a kick.

It's not a request if a kick is the alternative for rejecting that request. So, yes, only one side is compelling playstyle on others here.

To clarify, let's take a look at the actual rule: "Expressions that compel a playing style."

"Hey, just so you know, since we're a fully geared party, you can and should pull more."
"Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I'm more comfortable with, and so prefer to make, smaller pulls."

Of the above two polite statements, the first comes closer to being an expression that compels a play style as it is telling others what to do while the second is a personal statement.

[Krotoan]

Every single idea I saw the OP "approve" of would breed runs where "bad" players would be pressure to perform to a standard or either be punished with no clear, or punished with less loot."Good" players also being punished if they happened to be along with "bad" players. Encouraging "good" players to screen people and kick "bad" players.


Why all those quotes? Because at the end of the day this is against the design of the entire game. Like it or not the main story is meant to be progressed by anyone who wants to play the game. Casual to hardcore. You want optimal play? We got extremes and ultimates, as evidenced by their clear rates they are not for everyone. I don't really care if people will say "but they're so easy"... they are apparently not easy for everyone and that's the point. They have unique rewards, time limits, damage checks, all these things that were mentioned and why? Because they are meant for the people who have "standards" and are going for that level of play.


Most roulettes have rewards because they're for filling instances for the clears and to keep old content rolling. Don't like doing runs with random factors? Don't queue them. Make your own parties for "optimal" clears. Yeah it sucks that some people want to be carried through the whole game, but in my opinion I'd rather have lazy people than hostile dictator parties.


I have yet to see one of these solutions that doesn't create an environment that inspires contention between players.

[Drakonic]

Then the game needs to do more to keep the good players around. Give players that clear current Raid tier or Ultimate 3 months of free gameplay. Or give them access to a special ward in housing areas where all houses are mansions but cheaper to get so long as you have the corresponding title to buy them.

Or just make 3 Ultimates every expansion instead of these incentives.

[SpiralMask]

small teeny tiny nitpick to OP: some classes dont actually get an aoe skill until level ~30 (such as MNK/SAM getting their first at 26, NIN at 30 (on mudra cooldown)/it's first aoe GCD death blossom at 38, SMN at 30 with bane (moderate cooldown)/35 for energy siphon (moderate cooldown)/and 40 for outburst--their first aoe GCD, DRG not getting it's first aoe skill until 40 in doom spike), so pulling the whole dungeon and getting mad for them single-targetting miiiight be on you. won't comment on the rest (such as the 70-80's in your clarification, and on an alt of yours?) tho.

[Shurrikhan]

It's not a request if a kick is the alternative for rejecting that request.

It is the only alternative by which 3 out of 4 players are not compelled to play the style of the 1 of 4. That does not mean the kick must occur. It only means that it's utter bull to call the alternative, by which the 1 in 4 rules by default, not a compelled play style.

To clarify, let's take a look at the actual rule: "Expressions that compel a playing style."

Then we're left with the old "Since only communication is punishable, just kick immediately to ensure there is no context from which intent may be inferred, since blanket reasons for a kick (including "Differing Playstyles) are always protected." Great.

Of the above two polite statements, the first comes closer to being an expression that compels a play style as it is telling others what to do while the second is a personal statement.

Equally:
"Myself and the remainder of the party apart from you want X."
"That's nice but I want Y and I have control by default so... /shrug."

So which is more thoroughly compelling one's play style upon others?

No, I get it. The second is protected on a technicality and asking for the odd man out not to force their play style on others is against the ToA. I get that. But that's also complete rubbish.