Machinist needs help.

[Jirah]

I'd also say shb MCH is in the same boat as MNK, both are good bases and can be expanded on very easily. Meanwhile on the other side of the spectrum BLM and DRG are starting to stagnate and is kinda at a breaking point when it comes to what they can add to it that's exciting or big. Of the two sides it's kinda better to be on the strong base with a lot of room to grow side even if its boring for a time. Though thats just my opinion as someone who plays all the jobs XD

MNK and MCH are kinda in the same boat aren’t they, the thing is MCH base isn’t that great? Shallow kit aside it’s just not inherently fun, I just don’t see the whole HB weaving phase to be engaging and just comes off as pointless chaff. Removing that would make MCH as bad as a lv30 job

[Rymi64]

MNK and MCH are kinda in the same boat aren’t they, the thing is MCH base isn’t that great? Shallow kit aside it’s just not inherently fun, I just don’t see the whole HB weaving phase to be engaging and just comes off as pointless chaff. Removing that would make MCH as bad as a lv30 job

I mean it seems like you liked it in SB and its basically the same in shb since you're hitting the same buttons essentially. It might not inherently fun to you but its obviously fun to more casual player base. I also never really said they should remove the HB weaving phase, they could add to it though or even just give alternative uses for heat or something. Like a burst that has a 30 or 60 second cooldown or some shit idk to have a small burst and a big burst (of which to get the big burst you'd need like to rework wild fire to be interesting)

[Jirah]

I mean it seems like you liked it in SB and its basically the same in shb since you're hitting the same buttons essentially. It might not inherently fun to you but its obviously fun to more casual player base. I also never really said they should remove the HB weaving phase, they could add to it though or even just give alternative uses for heat or something. Like a burst that has a 30 or 60 second cooldown or some shit idk to have a small burst and a big burst (of which to get the big burst you'd need like to rework wild fire to be interesting)

Terrible analogy on your part but I’ll just ignore that. Popularity doesn’t mean quality as I assure you. What I detest are beta jobs, expansions should Feature complete jobs not proof of concepts they’ll touch up in 2 years which was the case with MCH and MNK to a extent.

When your not 1-2-3 HB phase happens ever 22.5 seconds then it’s back to 1-2-3 so it already has somthing like this what it needs to do is overhaul or remove heat, and make the the casual core more fun. Burst phases are most appealing when they are properly built to have one. MCH isn’t it was but it’s undergotten too many removals and adjustments with a phase similar in ambition to a tank

[Rymi64]

Terrible analogy on your part but I’ll just ignore that. Popularity doesn’t mean quality as I assure you. What I detest are beta jobs, expansions should Feature complete jobs not proof of concepts they’ll touch up in 2 years which was the case with MCH and MNK to a extent.

When your not 1-2-3 HB phase happens ever 22.5 seconds then it’s back to 1-2-3 so it already has somthing like this what it needs to do is overhaul or remove heat, and make the the casual core more fun. Burst phases are most appealing when they are properly built to have one. MCH isn’t it was but it’s undergotten too many removals and adjustments with a phase similar in ambition to a tank

I never said popularly=quality I only said just because you don't find it appealing doesn't other people have to share your opinion of not finding it appealing. And it's not a beta job it's a simple job which is fine since not every job has to be complicated. What you want is it to be complex, which the last time it was really "complex" was hw. MNK on the other hand had the problem of being tied to the archaic system of GL since they wanted everything to somehow tie into GL. It now is at a point where it can be built off of easily.

I don't see how or why they need to rework heat, reworking or removing it would be the dumbest thing ever since we are in this situation because they reworked it from hw --> sb and then again from sb -->shb with shb being a better base since you literally couldn't go anywhere with how heat worked in sb. What they need to do is add on to it not rework it a 3rd time. That's why it's a nice base, you can add stuff into those luls. Though adding cast times would be a rework you can make it work with the heat.

[Jirah]

snip

SB Heat wasn’t meant to be experimental, it had its purpose and went with it and had plenty of leg room to experiment with other ideas like other variants of barrels, or turrets during its 60 sec down time to not compliment heat, but to further cater to wildfire. SHB being Frequent and makes little sense to add more ontop of the strict 5 spam charge spasm.

and even with all that imagination name one beneficial thing you can add to the 22.5 phase or heat in general that’s unique to MCH and enhances its overall kit? It would make more sense to just have Hypercharge on a CD removed from heat or have a buff turn your rotation into somthing similar to continuation where each action reduces CD to the charge attack(s). Removes the ping dependency which didn’t go away in SHB, and isn’t far removed to the base kit to alienate people so the kit can try new things. Heat is a remnant of the past and they should make a idneitiy if it’s own instead of making scraps of old concepts such as Cast bars, which were literally removed ages ago . iT makes even less sense to add them back and what exactly would that even add? Standing still for 2.4 seconds wouldn’t add much to gameplay

[Rymi64]

SB Heat wasn’t meant to be experimental, it had its purpose and went with it and had plenty of leg room to experiment with other ideas like other variants of barrels, or turrets during its 60 sec down time to not compliment heat, but to further cater to wildfire. SHB being Frequent and makes little sense to add more ontop of the strict 5 spam charge spasm.

and even with all that imagination name one beneficial thing you can add to the 22.5 phase or heat in general that’s unique to MCH and enhances its overall kit? It would make more sense to just have Hypercharge on a CD removed from heat or have a buff turn your rotation into somthing similar to continuation where each action reduces CD to the charge attack(s). Removes the ping dependency which didn’t go away in SHB, and isn’t far removed to the base kit to alienate people so the kit can try new things. Heat is a remnant of the past and they should make a idneitiy if it’s own instead of making scraps of old concepts such as Cast bars, which were literally removed ages ago . iT makes even less sense to add them back and what exactly would that even add? Standing still for 2.4 seconds wouldn’t add much to gameplay

Adding another barrel wouldn't add anything to the job and would just lead to the job stagnating which you yourself have said you don't want. Same case with the turret, what could you add to that so it would be different than the one we had and wouldn't have stagnated. Plus they could do the turret thing with shb mch anyways which is a point we all agree on that being they could do more with the turret/battery gauge than what they are doing now.

I think you're missing the point I'm trying to make when it comes to the lul points. The point is to give mch something else that uses heat so your not doing the hyper charge spam. That way you're alternating which decreases the bland part. Could have it either in hypercbarge or outside hypercharge both could work as long as it uses heat as well. He'll you even named something they could do for the in-between phase. Have a continuation like combo which you activate using heat and the last hit can as an example give you a free use of a skill or something. Though what you described is heat blast spam only with different animations. To get rid of the ping reliance they could add charges to hypercharge just like they did to bunshin and perfect balance since you're gonna get 5 shots anyways if you have good ping.


You might think it doesn't add much but it could be big especially if they tied it to heat. One example is that it would get rid of your complaint about the HB spam in hypercharge and replace it with your main combo for that period while also giving you more stuff to do. And it'd be a 1.5 cast time like ast and not 2.4

[Jirah]

Snip

Another Barrel would be limitless potential, idk how your viewing it but a Barrel is essentially a new mechanic to go alongside the kit. But that’s SB talk this is SHB

They can’t do the Turret thing in SHB due to battery restricting it so much, battery will have to be adjusted or reworked to have any interplay besides buildup/spend. Battery only grants the thing to appear so often and only really gives you 5 or so attacks before going away. Unlike SB which had more laxed mechanics and complimented MCH kit, SHB does not


The thing is heat doesn’t need to exist Hypercharge can be its own buff to have expend charged if this is truly the route we must go, similar to EA except no longer regulated to just one button and perhaps give this benefit to spread shot too so it’s aoe compatible which the charge system is not despite having a aoe. Maybe give it rapid fire or just have Hypercharge grant speed and boom, heat irrelevant, not as ping reliant and not as toothless.

Bunchin and Perfect balance worked best due to what more goes on in NIN and MNK kits, it was difficult to pull all the crap off upkeeing demo, twin snakes and being in ledan fist and complimented the phase with crits giving chakra and so forth. If done poorly This would essentially bore mch to a crawl. Imagine Hypercharge gives you too much time to press a button 5 times with nothing to upkeep and no concerns for range, it doesn’t sound like a compromise that would benefit it unless they added more or reworked it. Otherwise that’s a stale phase to do with nothing else MCH has besides reassemble every minute

[Rymi64]

Another Barrel would be limitless potential, idk how your viewing it but a Barrel is essentially a new mechanic to go alongside the kit. But that’s SB talk this is SHB

They can’t do the Turret thing in SHB due to battery restricting it so much, battery will have to be adjusted or reworked to have any interplay besides buildup/spend. Battery only grants the thing to appear so often and only really gives you 5 or so attacks before going away. Unlike SB which had more laxed mechanics and complimented MCH kit, SHB does not


The thing is heat doesn’t need to exist Hypercharge can be its own buff to have expend charged if this is truly the route we must go, similar to EA except no longer regulated to just one button and perhaps give this benefit to spread shot too so it’s aoe compatible which the charge system is not despite having a aoe. Maybe give it rapid fire or just have Hypercharge grant speed and boom, heat irrelevant, not as ping reliant and not as toothless.

Bunchin and Perfect balance worked best due to what more goes on in NIN and MNK kits, it was difficult to pull all the crap off upkeeing demo, twin snakes and being in ledan fist and complimented the phase with crits giving chakra and so forth. If done poorly This would essentially bore mch to a crawl. Imagine Hypercharge gives you too much time to press a button 5 times with nothing to upkeep and no concerns for range, it doesn’t sound like a compromise that would benefit it unless they added more or reworked it. Otherwise that’s a stale phase to do with nothing else MCH has besides reassemble every minute

Aight what would this hypothetical new barrel do that will make the player want to use it over the barrel we had at the time. What would have been so integral for me to use that barrel for the 30-40 seconds I had till my wild fire came off cooldown and I go into my burst again and would add to my kit.

I feel like you never read anything I said about how to do the turret on the last page which was revert it back to hw/sb style then work the battery gauge in there to buff the bot. So they could totally do the turret thing with shb style mch, heat is used to buff/augment stuff for the mch while the battery would be used to augment and buff the Bot.

I have no clue what you're asking for here but idk why you're trying to get rid of heat when you can add to the things that use heat. It's better to try to get to a breaking point before reworking a job. Which they kinda did since sb mch was automatically at a breaking point and no where to go. There's two ways they could alleviate ping problem, set amount of gcds that can be used in Hypercharge, or just add 1-2 seconds

[Rym]

Hey guys, do you think there might be any buffs to MCH with endwalker?

[ReiganCross]

Hey guys, do you think there might be any buffs to MCH with endwalker?

If they'd only remove the ranged tax I would consider it a massive buff. But no, I don't foresee they doing that.