Machinist needs help.

[Riszyn]

Mch is supposed to be the greedy dps like a lot of people have pointed out for the physical ranged dps, but our potency's just seem to be too low. We can't even touch a lot of the melee dps number wise, and aside from an overall potency increase plus a trait rework I don't know if we'll ever actually be able to compete. Which sucks because I really like this job. As for the problems with flamethrower, A. It's really silly we can't move while using this but can move during Bioblaster, which are basically the same animation except ones green. B. It's damage is incredibly low for something that takes us completely out of the mix for 10 seconds, even if you doubled it's potency it's debatable if it's worth while to use while not being able to use anything else during it. So how about making it into a directional spawn-able turret, that functions the same way flame thrower does now just... without you standing there doing it.

[Dyvid]

Mch is supposed to be the greedy dps like a lot of people have pointed out for the physical ranged dps, but our potency's just seem to be too low. We can't even touch a lot of the melee dps number wise, and aside from an overall potency increase plus a trait rework I don't know if we'll ever actually be able to compete. Which sucks because I really like this job. As for the problems with flamethrower, A. It's really silly we can't move while using this but can move during Bioblaster, which are basically the same animation except ones green. B. It's damage is incredibly low for something that takes us completely out of the mix for 10 seconds, even if you doubled it's potency it's debatable if it's worth while to use while not being able to use anything else during it. So how about making it into a directional spawn-able turret, that functions the same way flame thrower does now just... without you standing there doing it.

So I'm not sure where this low damage rumors are coming from but based on data from certain websites, MCH isn't in a bad place DPS wise. My problem is some of the skills just don't make sense anymore and Physical Ranged DPS Role has really lost it's meaning. It's nothing more now than an extra sprint and minor Defense buff which job in other roles have too.

[godvivec]

So I'm not sure where this low damage rumors are coming from but based on data from certain websites, MCH isn't in a bad place DPS wise. My problem is some of the skills just don't make sense anymore and Physical Ranged DPS Role has really lost it's meaning. It's nothing more now than an extra sprint and minor Defense buff which job in other roles have too.

I would like to see what you're looking at, because what I've seen looking at the logs is that MCH is neck and neck with BRD for damage (with MCH actually losing to BRD in a couple categories, though the more casual ones).

It's funny, because bard is rolling in utility, and MCH is a "greedy dps". MCH really has nothing to back up being a greedy dps though, so really they're just a BRD lacking in utility right now. Not a good place to be in.

[Kolsykol]

I would like to see what you're looking at, because what I've seen looking at the logs is that MCH is neck and neck with BRD for damage (with MCH actually losing to BRD in a couple categories, though the more casual ones).

It's funny, because bard is rolling in utility, and MCH is a "greedy dps". MCH really has nothing to back up being a greedy dps though, so really they're just a BRD lacking in utility right now. Not a good place to be in.

When I look at FFlogs, the second EX for example.
MCH is just bellow MNK in Ndps and in the middle in terms of raid dps.

Looking at most of the other fights they seem to be around the middle just bellow BLM which is pretty dumb all things considered.

[CKNovel]

When I look at FFlogs, the second EX for example.
MCH is just bellow MNK in Ndps and in the middle in terms of raid dps.

Looking at most of the other fights they seem to be around the middle just bellow BLM which is pretty dumb all things considered.

I think you should filter a bit your data.
If you use every data, it would be like mixing the rich and the poor from a country, making an average and saying the poor don't need better salary.
Plus you are looking at an EX where you can literally pad your damage through the add phases.

So I'm not sure where this low damage rumors are coming from but based on data from certain websites, MCH isn't in a bad place DPS wise. My problem is some of the skills just don't make sense anymore and Physical Ranged DPS Role has really lost it's meaning. It's nothing more now than an extra sprint and minor Defense buff which job in other roles have too.

This is agree with.
IMO, ranged should have a lot of supportive actions, hell I even hoped Peleton would be reworked into something like Expedient...
Mitigation and party survival should be their secondary role, that would explain the ceiling forced upon the ranged role.

[Kolsykol]

I think you should filter a bit your data.
If you use every data, it would be like mixing the rich and the poor from a country, making an average and saying the poor don't need better salary.
Plus you are looking at an EX where you can literally pad your damage through the add phases.

Everyone can pad their damage on add phases and I didn't only look at the EX fights.
Only the third raid fight has adds.

On the fights without adds MCH is still only VERY slightly bellow MCH ( in a matter of 10 dps ).
Granted to some extent this is also probably because the average BLM player isn't that great and doesn't have as high uptime as they should but MCH doesn't look bad at all to me.

[Jirah]

Would it be bad to say that I kinda wish they went back to StB mch and bring back actual heat management. Personally I think the only issues with it was that they didn't give us Heat Blast to manage heat at lv60 and instead made it lv62 and having Wildfire being a tighter window to fit stuff in.

Yes it would, as much as I prefer SB playstyle, it wasn’t very popular and had numerous flaws with its design. Gauss barrel was a waste of a slot, prog kit was pretty bad, and people hated the rng (ignoring DNC worse rng but better reception)

What SB really needed was a skill that instacast Overheat, some more interplay between reloading and the wildfire phase, and more aoe tools.

What SHB/EW really needed was it’s lateral skills to be more ironed out (stop having us spam shit, remove the pointless fodder, add on to the aoe kit, have it’s more dead end skills contribute) add a lot more interplay between it’s only phase.

It’s a shame MCH barely got anything note worthy and it’s also hilarious that the devs are so heavily relying on hypemen for feedback, which was the major reason why it was untouched and being that they are the majority of MCH mains these days.

[Rym]

After filtering the data I'm seeing MCH consistently fighting neck in neck with dancer for the lowest DPS in the game.

Yeah it needs some serious buffs here. It only appears to be doing fine-ish when you add literally low percentile logs. You need to be dead at the start of the fight to get that percentile.

[Valence]

If anything, it's rPhys that needs help, and has always needed help. The infamous mobility tax you know. Having them slightly lower by design for casual content and prog balance is all fine and dandy, but the fact remains that almost immediately everybody else manages to still deal more damage output no matter what.

Back in HW and SB the mobility tax was conveniently hidden behind the DRG's piercing debuff, which was still provided by the DRG and not by the ranged physical jobs benefiting from it, but people still took those jobs because rPhys identity back then was to buff the party in MP and TP resource management, which was rather important. In ShB and now EW, this is offset instead by the party bonus that having a single rPhys in the party provides, so you'd take them as long as the mobility tax is refunded by this (though getting more than one rphys job is suboptimal by that very fact). In fact at ShB release the mobility tax was so huge that it became actually meta to remove rphys entirely from parties and go double melee double caster, although not many did that ironically for... well, their results on a certain website. Until the tax got reduced.

The problem isn't on MCH damage, the problem is on the mobility tax, which is also affecting SMN amusingly enough now.

[Rym]

Oh my...

Am I even going to be taken into any savage / extreme trials as a MCH? What do I bring to the group that literally everyone else couldn't and do better damage on top of that?