Toxicity and Community

[Krotoan]

I originally wrote a big'ol wall of the words and letters like I usually do because I enjoy writing stuffs. Buuuuut the forums here have strict character limit so I shall employ the twitter method.

You can circumvent that by copying what you wrote, posting just a few words, then editing the post with what you originally wanted to write. I have no idea why the character limit is even there other than to make initial posting annoying.

[Caurcas]

Community, here or else, just refers to your tribe and in 14 those are often warring. Raiders want different things than the rpers. PvPers want different things from glamers. Sure you might have some overlap, but that leads to my next point. Why tie yourself down arbitrarily to some nebulously defined group and make that your identity? It's silly. In my personal opinion you might broadly associate with certain tribes over other, but at the end of the day be a free player and be your own person. Everyone else is dirt for you to grind beneath your heel till they do something worthy of your respect.

[Jojoya]

Everyone else is dirt for you to grind beneath your heel till they do something worthy of your respect.

And that is how toxicity begins.

You don't need to automatically respect someone else but you do need to respect boundaries. Common courtesy goes far unless the other person has no interest in being courteous.

[Mingqin]

In regards to MMO and toxicity

FFXIV's community can be pretty toxic but not in game, I'm referring to the types on youtube, twitter and reddit, the types who obsess over other games, proceed to shit talk their old games of choice like an angry ex with getting over issues. There was a post a week or so ago about " evangelists " being annoying. I've literally never seen a community that obsesses over other MMOs quite like this one and personally I feel this community needs to put down it's zealots because it's giving it a bad reputation.

I also remember the drama over lazypeon OP, he deleted his video from youtube because of the harassment he received from the zealots.

[Evergrey]

In regards to MMO and toxicity

FFXIV's community can be pretty toxic but not in game, I'm referring to the types on youtube, twitter and reddit, the types who obsess over other games, proceed to shit talk their old games of choice like an angry ex with getting over issues. There was a post a week or so ago about " evangelists " being annoying. I've literally never seen a community that obsesses over other MMOs quite like this one and personally I feel this community needs to put down it's zealots because it's giving it a bad reputation.

I also remember the drama over lazypeon OP, he deleted his video from youtube because of the harassment he received from the zealots.

So true.
Whenever I talk about FFXIV with friends I do say that the people in there are one of the nicer I've met in an MMO.
But I also mention how there are those that are so extreme that it makes me embarrassed to be part of the community.
And I've never felt embarrassed of playing a game due to other players before.
Not even in games with more open toxicity.
FFXIV is one of a kind when it comes to the negative sides.

[Caurcas]

And that is how toxicity begins.

You don't need to automatically respect someone else but you do need to respect boundaries. Common courtesy goes far unless the other person has no interest in being courteous.

Then you missed my point. It's not "toxicity" its using your freedom to create and carve out your own community. One that is an actual community rather than a loose collection of players vaguely connected by interest.

[MiaShino]

You can circumvent that by copying what you wrote, posting just a few words, then editing the post with what you originally wanted to write. I have no idea why the character limit is even there other than to make initial posting annoying.

Shoot! I had forgotten about this! Many thanks, my partner was trying to warn me too but I already deleted it out of feist.

[strawberrycake]

Ok, I think you can understand that the difference is people can see Asmongold on stream.

Nonetheless, yes, I would say people who treat Asmongold differently than a non-streamer can be hypocritical. If there is a lack of detail, then it is better to be neutral rather than be accusing of anyone.

That said, I still wouldn't say that's the case for everyone, nor is it necessarily a case of maintaining an illusion. As said, SE's infamous(?) ToS is proof that they expect bad behaviors within the game. There is no illusion to maintain.

You're missing the point here it seems. It doesnt matter what the TOS says, People want to have the vanity of being good and positive and that they remove the bad actors is what they're saying. But if people see through their BS or know things about them, or simply called them out on how they're virtue signalling, said people will smear them and make them out to be racist, pedophiles, etc, all to silence them, and that in itself is rampant within FF. A friend of mine is being threatened with being doxxed if they dont leave the server they're on, but people have told them they're lying, many isue like this occur all through out the game.

[Kes13a]

so.. now its the people who are trying to be good, and respecting others helping out etc that are ruining the community because they are "virtue signalling" by their actions? being good and positive is now a vanity?

I am failing to see much of the logic being tossed around these days at all

the internet has never been a toxin free zone and it never will be, anonymity allows people to sink to the level of least effort for them, which in a lot of cases, is that of the school bully. more than a few act how they want to be treated. the whole place is a homogenization of different personality traits, simple as that, the more extreme you are (not in a good way) the longer your internet "fame". I have never in all my time playing ever heard anyone saying FFXIV was toxin free. but now we have a portion of the community literally dancing in the streets because, I assume, they have found fellow toxic people here and can have "friends" and be toxic together or something.

I enjoy the community, mostly. there are people here I prefer not to be around, because they are rude or what have you, but thats no different than the real world. might my in game friends have a darker more toxic interior, its entirely possible, who knows? I was raised to treat people how you want to be treated and to respect others, didnt specify as to whom, just thats how you treat other people. FFXIV has nicer people generally in my opinion because of this, we are not all saints, and in my experience, games with less baked in interpersonal conflict such as pvp seem to be "nicer" or "less toxic" is the term these days I suppose. only the truly delusional confuse "nicer" with "toxic free"

I guess the reality is, that unless you have met or interacted with a MAJORITY of people in a game, you cannot reasonably label anything toxic or not. in mmos, thats simply not possible. if most of teh people you meet are jerks, my feeling is examine your own behaviour. for me, the interactions have been in the majority, positive. have I met jerks, of course. but I hardly think that they compromise a majority without meeting everyone else first.

meh, tired of this whole "the illusion is broken" garbage. it was only an illusion if you created it. its a game, with people, and people are what they are. as with any society, if you follow the rules or TOS, chances are you contribute in a "good" way.

sorry for the ramble

[Iscah]

I guess the reality is, that unless you have met or interacted with a MAJORITY of people in a game, you cannot reasonably label anything toxic or not.

This is a key point – though I think you mean "the community" rather than "anything". If you have come across that behaviour, you can label the specific behaviour from that person. But you can't say it represents the entire in-game community.

If people say "everyone in the game is nice", that's wishful thinking. But they can truly say "everyone I've met in the game is nice" if that's their experience.

And if someone else comes back and says "people have been awful to me so your 'nice people' must be fake", you can't confirm that unless you can somehow research who each person has interacted and confirm that they are dealing with the same people acting in very different ways.

Even then, it's inevitable that there are some people like that who are nice to their friends and awful to others. That, unfortunately, is humanity and you'll find some degree of it anywhere a community forms. But it doesn't mean that's the majority or the "true face of the community", just an unquantifiable portion of it.

The best you can do is say that if statistically most people have a positive experience, the community is probably generally "nice".

Also, if a portion of the community does want to act "toxicly", there's nothing anyone else can do to stop them besides attempt to summon a GM. They can't physically prevent the person from acting in a way they disapprove of.